Fujinon 300mm & 360mm W puzzle

[xkaes]

Sorry, don't have the gear to do colour pictures. When I shine a light source at the front of my lens I see faint purple, brown, and yellow reflections. The back of the lens shows only brownish reflections. Multicoated? Now I don't know.

There's no legal definition of "multi-coated" (AKA, "multiple-layer coating"), but it basically comes down to "at least one side of one glass element having more than one layer of coating on it". That was achieved by Minolta (for Japan anyway), in 1958. (Minolta was also the first to apply a single coat to a lens in Japan -- in 1946 on the 75mm f3.5 Rokkor on the Minolta Semi IIIA.) They applied two layers of magnesium fluoride deposited in different thicknesses -- both the same color -- but it reduced flare/glare on the 55mm f1.8 used on the SR-2. Nowadays, Fuji EBC lenses can have 21 ultra-thin layers/coatings. But, you can look at a single-layer coated lens that has different colors and easily assume it is multi-coated, but it may not be. A lens can have a single magenta-colored coating on one element, and a single amber-colored coating on another. That's not multi-coated in my book -- just multi-colored. I have several enlarging lenses like that.

[rawitz]

Check Rodenstock specs. Long lenses in barrel have, with some lenses, larger circles then the same lens in Copal 3 shutter.

If shutter size limits the IC, then by f-stopping down any lens in any shutter the IC should increasingly be reduced. It is not.
Yes, different barrel sizes can mechanically change IC

[Bernice Loui]

Coatings do make a difference in view camera lens contrast rendition, the big butt, the difference is not as much as smaller format lenses specially complex zoom lenses. Many of the uber performance modern zoom lenses could not work at all without uber tech coatings due to the number of elements involved and complexities of these zoom lenses.

That said, view camera lenses tend to be lower complexity in many ways reducing the need for uber tech lens coatings. In some cases, single Mag F coatings are good enough. The often neglected contrast controlling widget is a GOOD compendium lens shade properly set up. A GOOD lens shade can make a LOT of difference with image contrast rendition on the film image as this can aid lots in controlling excessive image circle (have this problem with using lenses with too big a image circle on the Linhof TK23s) reducing excessive flare light inside the bellows.

Keep in mind, image circle size was a view camera lens marketing moniker for a long time. Larger image circle is not better, ideal is to chose the lens based on actual image making needs instead of the latest-greatest, uber tech coatings or what ever other marketing moniker. Having used vast varieties of view camera lenses over four decades of this view camera stuff, fact is a good lens is more than adequate for even the very best Fotographer, long as the Fotographer fully understands the limitations and strengths of any given lens and how to get the very best out of a given VC lens.


Bernice

[xkaes]

That said, view camera lenses tend to be lower complexity in many ways reducing the need for uber tech lens coatings.

Bernice

Well said. The fewer elements/groups, the less benefit from multi-coating, and large format lenses have far fewer than smaller format lenses -- especially zoom lenses. Since wider lenses usually add glass, multi-coating gets more important with these lenses -- as does adding a shade, as mentioned.

When I look at my various 35mm zooms (Vivitar VMC 90-180mm f4.5, Tokina RMC 28-85mm f4.0, etc.) the rainbow of colors in the coating is mind boggling. Then I look at my large format multi-coated lenses and they are bland in comparison -- because they are only multi-coated where it's needed. To look at some of them, you would never know they have multi-coating.

[rawitz]

We should also keep in mind, that in the beginning of the 1980th years with the stepup to multicoating the lenses simultaneously there was general stepup in lens design. Schneider Symmar-S, Super-Angulon MC, and others are not only a multicoated version of the elder Symmar, SA, but improved lensdesigns matched to the newly big improved films like E-6 Ektachromes. And as the film benchmark got higher, the lensconstructors had to follow, which not could be done by only stepup to "multicoating". The same with the here discussed Fuji lenses.

[Vaughn]

If shutter size limits the IC, then by f-stopping down any lens in any shutter the IC should increasingly be reduced. It is not.
Yes, different barrel sizes can mechanically change IC

Actually decreasing the aperture reduces the mechanical vignetting due to shutters, lens hoods, etc. Easy to see when using GG with cut corners. If I can see the entire aperture unrestricted, then I know my movements, lens hood, and bellows allow that corner to get full illumination.

[MAubrey]

Thanks for the response.
I've never seen a W lens with inside lettering that is multi-coated. Can you provide a picture?
The original 300mm is listed with an IC of 420mm (80°) at f22.

It's striking that the Fujinon W brochure pdf linked to here explicitly states that all Fujinon WS lenses with inside ring writing have EBC coating:

Electron Beam coating (EBC)
A unique, patented Fuji process
Most quality lenses are coated, but EBC is significantly different in three respects: (1) the number of coats, (2) the thinness of the coatings and (3) the materials used for coating. EBC lenses receive up to 11 coatings on key lens elements, coatings that are exceptionally uniform and thin. Using an electron beam, virtually all ideal coating substances can be melted (including, for example, zirconium oxide - a substance which cannot be used for lens coating with conventional methods).
The final result is up to 99.8% light transmittance, sharper pictures, and virtual elimination of flare and ghost.

So there already much have been some degree of multicoating, even if its not a very large number of coats. My Fujinon W with writing on the outside is mostly yellow/purple in its coating, except on the front element which only has the slightest Green/Purple.

[rawitz]

So there already much have been some degree of multicoating, even if its not a very large number of coats. My Fujinon W with writing on the outside is mostly yellow/purple in its coating, except on the front element which only has the slightest Green/Purple.

The best way to distinguish SC to MC coating is, if you rotate the lens the reflection color of coating changes with the angle of looking at.

[rawitz]

Actually decreasing the aperture reduces the mechanical vignetting due to shutters, lens hoods, etc. Easy to see when using GG with cut corners. If I can see the entire aperture unrestricted, then I know my movements, lens hood, and bellows allow that corner to get full illumination.

Not really.
The f-wide-open IC is technically the largest "Illumination C" because all of the lens flaws are included, but not mechanically "due to shutter,lens hoods ets". Stopping down reduces light-falloff, koma etc so you get an acceptable image, while the IC is slightly reduced to the physical accurate value.

[Bob Salomon]

Not really.
The f-wide-open IC is technichally the largest "Illumination C" because all of the lens flaws are included, but not mechanically "due to shutter,lens hoods ets". Stopping down reduces light-falloff, koma etc so you get an acceptable image, while the IC is slightly reduced to the physical accurate value.

Perhaps you would like to explain why the image circle increases as one stops down or focuses closer then infinity. Per manufacturer’s spec sheets.