Help for best set of lenses

[Alan Klein]

IMO, learning image composition relative to lens focal length/camera position is best done initially with a hand held camera digital, roll film or mobile-fone camera.. "normal" focal length lens tends to be easiest as it produces an image perspective (objects size in foreground relative to objects in the background ala at a distance) similar to the way humanoid eyes see them. This is NOT the same as two eye vision which produces a much wider perception of view than a "normal" focal length lens. This is a learned "thing" as part of fotography and image making. Not just lens/camera position, lens/camera height relative to the image to be made also figures significantly into this, optimal lens/camera position could be near ground level to greatly higher than ground level...

Few examples from the Canon digital using the basic three lens focal lengths of Wide_Normal_Tele, visual elements are noted with red or green lines with notes in each image.

Attachment 235779

24mm @ f5.6, lower lens/camera position noted in green. size of Santa laying on this tractor in the foreground is exaggerated relative to the size of the trees in the background .. which in reality is HUGE compared to Santa on the tractor.. This is typically what wide angle lenses do and how they are most often used. Visual elements of this image are noted in red.

Attachment 235780

40mm @ f5.6, about shoulder height lens/camera height. Note the size of objects foreground -vs- background, about similar to the way a single eye should perceive them.. visual elements noted in red, aprox lens/camera position noted in green..


Attachment 235781

180mm + 1.4x @ f5, selective focus with the background completely out of focus working as a backdrop.. Ponder where the lens/camera position might be relative the leaf and background..


Next examples are with a view camera..
Bernice

Thanks for both posts Bernice. I've been using my micro 4/3 digital camera lately as a director's viewfinder using it's zoom to help determine the 4x5 lens I want to use. When I get to the right position, I'll drop my pen to mark the tripod spot and then go get the tripod and the camera case. Saves a lot of walking around with my equipment. If I'm shooting BW film, I'll switch the digital camera to view in BW and then use it as an exposure meter. Focusing and movements are my biggest problems. Lots to learn there.

[jnantz]

Yes is to know what is "normal" for "you". For me "normal" is something like a 125mm. Most others will call that a "wide". "Tele" for me is anything over 150. Everybody is different.

couldn't agree more!
I think my normal is whatever I happen to have on the front at the time.

[Bernice Loui]

Good-Excellent way to use a digital camera. The digital camera with zoom can work as a director's viewfinder, image preview device, image capture device and more, it is also small, light weight and portable. Images captured with the digital can be used as the "prototype" for images to be made with a view camera.. Do set the digital camera to the same image ratio as the film camera to be used at some point.

Focusing, ask the question of where to you as the image creator want the eyes of the viewer to go in the 2D image? Will there be visual elements that can serve as visual "guard rails" to keep the eyes of the viewer focused to the "center of attention" in the image created? With the two previous examples, the cypress tree and succulent bloom were the objects of focus, objects of attention other elements or adders in those images were "helpers" and not much more.

This brings up the topic of composition which has been previously discussed on LFF. Yes, there are those who think-believe the composition thing aka "rules" is all Hooey, yet the basic concepts and "rules" of composition have a long proven history to be effective spanning back to cave paintings... Simple example of composition coupled to focusing on the area of viewer's attention would be the basic head/shoulder portrait where the lens/camera is focused on the portrait sitters eyes... Do learn from the history of what painters, 2D graphic artist, sculptors and more have done over the course of history of art.. They have SO much to offer photographers, yet so many photographers dismiss their art, their contributions, their expressive creations... Stuff like this is similar to music theory which serious musicians and composers spend a lifetime studying with great fascination, passion and enthusiasm.


On camera movements, practice, practice, practice... start with simple basic camera movements. Add more complex or combined camera movements only after the basic camera movements have become comfy and well understood. It is much the only way to properly learn this. One way of practicing camera movements is to make a table top set up at home with the view camera.. This allows ease of working with the camera in a controlled and often comfy environments.


Bernice

I've been using my micro 4/3 digital camera lately as a director's viewfinder using it's zoom to help determine the 4x5 lens I want to use. When I get to the right position, I'll drop my pen to mark the tripod spot and then go get the tripod and the camera case. Saves a lot of walking around with my equipment. If I'm shooting BW film, I'll switch the digital camera to view in BW and then use it as an exposure meter. Focusing and movements are my biggest problems. Lots to learn there.

[Alan Klein]

Good-Excellent way to use a digital camera. The digital camera with zoom can work as a director's viewfinder, image preview device, image capture device and more, it is also small, light weight and portable. Images captured with the digital can be used as the "prototype" for images to be made with a view camera.. Do set the digital camera to the same image ratio as the film camera to be used at some point.

Focusing, ask the question of where to you as the image creator want the eyes of the viewer to go in the 2D image? Will there be visual elements that can serve as visual "guard rails" to keep the eyes of the viewer focused to the "center of attention" in the image created? With the two previous examples, the cypress tree and succulent bloom were the objects of focus, objects of attention other elements or adders in those images were "helpers" and not much more.

This brings up the topic of composition which has been previously discussed on LFF. Yes, there are those who think-believe the composition thing aka "rules" is all Hooey, yet the basic concepts and "rules" of composition have a long proven history to be effective spanning back to cave paintings... Simple example of composition coupled to focusing on the area of viewer's attention would be the basic head/shoulder portrait where the lens/camera is focused on the portrait sitters eyes... Do learn from the history of what painters, 2D graphic artist, sculptors and more have done over the course of history of art.. They have SO much to offer photographers, yet so many photographers dismiss their art, their contributions, their expressive creations... Stuff like this is similar to music theory which serious musicians and composers spend a lifetime studying with great fascination, passion and enthusiasm.


On camera movements, practice, practice, practice... start with simple basic camera movements. Add more complex or combined camera movements only after the basic camera movements have become comfy and well understood. It is much the only way to properly learn this. One way of practicing camera movements is to make a table top set up at home with the view camera.. This allows ease of working with the camera in a controlled and often comfy environments.


Bernice

The digital camera is set 4:3 which is the closest to 4x5". The other settings available 1:1, 3:2, and 16:9 are too incongruent. 4:3 is the equivalent of 20x15 and 4x5" the same as 20x16. So 4:3 is only off 1/20th which is pretty close. It doesn't have to be exact in any case because it's only to get you to the right LF lens to use.

I aim my camera out through the back door's glass and practice movements there. Indoor works too but it's brighter outside. I stay warm in both cases.

[Bernice Loui]

View camera movements applied at near infinity focus or at significant distance tends to be smaller and less visible on the ground glass compared to a table top set up... Do both as they are complementary to each other in the learning process.

There was a time decades ago of great personal struggle with learning how to view camera movements.. What helped lots was burning a stack pile of
pull-O- aroids with a view camera set up for table top images and single light.. then pointing the view camera out the window to try view camera movements further that learning process..


Bernice

I aim my camera out through the back door's glass and practice movements there. Indoor works too but it's brighter outside. I stay warm in both cases.

[neil poulsen]

I view 72mm and 90mm Schneider Super Angulon XL lenses as being strictly special purpose. If one needs those extreme image circles for their work, then one or both are likely the right option. But, be prepared to be inconvenienced. Those lenses are huge. For one thing, they both have a 95mm filter thread. (Whew!) The diameter of the rear cell of the 72mm was close to 3", which made it inconvenient to mount onto my MF view camera. And, the 90mm has a rear diameter of about 90mm. (Double Whew!) Etc.

I attended a Norman McGrath (architectural photographer) workshop at about the time that the 72mm, 90mm SA XL's were being introduced, and he indicated that his current 75mm and 90mm SW's were sufficient for his architectural needs. He wasn't interested in purchasing the larger XL versions. I had a 72mm SA XL for a brief period, and there was enough difficulty integrating it into my kit, I sold it not long after.

Not for me.