Can you guys critique my website/portfolio of my large format photography work?

[Drew Wiley]

I don't know about doors of galleries opening to you because of an MFA. Having a music degree doesn't necessarily earn a recording session opportunity. Sure, I know several people who went the MFA route with an academic photography career, but it had almost zero to do with their eventual success. In fact, living as a "starving artist" a couple decades first, or expecting your spouse to support you ain't the greatest thing to aspire to. You still Have to climb the ladder rung by rung just like anyone else; a mere diploma isn't likely to impress anyone. But that can be said about all kinds of fields.

Don't discount luck and networking connections. I've known some awfully successful commercial photographers too, and not a single one of those had an MFA. Otherwise well educated in most cases, but not with Art degrees. There are exceptions to everything, and I've had the opportunity in my life to interact with some pretty high on the ladder folks from Art academia. But even they almost universally poo-poo the institutional aspects of it. What they enjoyed was teaching for sake of teaching. The haute social trappings can be more or a LaBrea Tarpit experience. But if you do decide to take the MFA route, hopefully you'll have some other well-defined option for actually making a living.

[xkaes]

...
those willing to pay for images are very different today ... Think-consider over 300 million images are up loaded to the web daily. This dilutes/discounts the value of images in the eyes of the masses on a mass scale. IMO, this is another result of digital imaging and IMO, part of the reason why alternative process images via view camera images have come into fashion.

Bernice

This is really nothing new. Since the days of the first Kodak, anyone can take a picture, and this is perhaps the major reason museums, artists, collectors, etc. have never considered photography as art. While the "gelatine ceiling" has been cracked a bit, cameras get better and better at taking easier and easier pictures, and the WEB has added to the pot.

[manfrominternet]

Your work is fine. Just make sure you are up on the Art Speak BS. Took me four years of a BFA, before I was fluent at that.

Hi Andrew,

Many thanks for your kind words and that's a great suggestions. Are there any books that you would recommend to help me brush up on my art speak BS? (My undergrad NYU Film & Television BFA days ended about 13 years ago, so I can certainly use some books to brush up on my art speak!)

Many thanks again,

Kris

[manfrominternet]

My 2 cents: the majority of the images are quite good and strong. However, there are a couple that stand out as not belonging to the group: the shower head and industrial interiors, the photos being installed, for example. Also, you artist's statement could use some editing, I want to know why you take picture, what motivates you and certainly not the fact that you may have manipulated them to produce the effect you want. I assume you have been to a portfolio review or two (not cheap, but cheaper than the tuition at the schools you've mentioned). Actually, maybe you don't necessarily need to attend school if you can motivate yourself to produce and evolve more of what you're already doing. Why do you feel you need an MFA? To teach? To sell or get into galleries? Today, a degree in photography doesn't open too many doors outside the academic world. Also, I would lose the "Works" page on your website that lists the titles and locations of the photos--it is misleading. They're already there with the photos, just add the year. And unless this issue also a resumé to get a job, no-one cares about your skills (or your equipment, listed separately) listed under "Resources," they should be apparent from the photos. Better if you have a list of shows and if you have been published anywhere, physically or online.

Hi Pieter,

All great advice! Thank you for taking the time to write it all out! I agree, there are some images that are totally unrelated, but I think that has more to do with the fact that I don't work in a series like Todd Hido or Alec Soth (I love their work.) I suppose the best way to describe the way I work as similar to Jeff Wall and Andreas Gursky, but I would never dare compare my work to theirs; I'm still essentially a nobody in the art world in comparison.

My artist statement could absolutely use some editing and clarification. I hadn't considered what motivates me to take these kinds of photographs, so I'm glad that you mentioned it. That's something I'll definitely add in one way or another to my artist statement.

You nailed it with the MFA. I feel that I could use one (preferably from a reputable school) to open up gallery doors, but more importantly, I feel like I've hit an artistic wall that I can't seem to overcome and hope that severe critiques in an MFA environment will help change my work. Anyway, without an MFA, I feel like I'll be stuck in the small gallery circuit, if any gallery at all. So there is a component of fear that partially driving this.

[manfrominternet]

I will echo some of the previous comments and, like some others, offer unsolicited advice. To give some context, my background is amateur photographer, retired college prof, with the degree required to get that job.

First, I taught a lot of students whose degrees opened the doors for incredible jobs, and others who left school to low-paying jobs they could have gotten without a degree. In both categories, most had a fair amount of debt when they were done, which is a load those in the latter category may never get out from under. As far as those successful in finding satisfying and financially rewarding careers, it should be noted that I was at a technical college. Those students were getting degrees in engineering, surveying, computer tech, medical imaging, dental hygiene, etc.

Second, when I was in grad school, the profs and the program were VERY negligent in preparing us for what we would do when we got out. I had enough previous life experience to read between the lines and parlay my experience into a rewarding career, but it was several notches in glamor below what most of my fellow students thought they would be doing after graduating. I actually thought that the faculty were almost purposely negligent in their neglect to talk about post-graduation expectations. If they had done that, about half the students would have probably left, causing some of the faculty to lose their jobs!

The last two paragraphs are simply reiterating what others have said: Why do you want an MFA? What do you expect it will do for you, and will it really do that?

I like much of your photography - the lack of near/far compositions is no problem for me. I like the sort of more formal style and think it is appropriate for the subject matter. But don't take too much stock in my critique, as I am not nearly as accomplished as some of the others here. Also, regarding people in your photos, I don't think your photographs are about people in an individual sense, but more about humanity and its constructions, so I feel it is appropriate that they don't contain people. After thinking about this a bit, I thought of two photographers who do have MFA degrees, Eliot Dudik and Brian Schutmaat. They have projects that combine human altered landscapes and people, both. But the kinds of landscapes that they photograph seem appropriate for combining with portraits of the inhabitants of those landscapes, and I'm not sure your sort of work would benefit from that. You might look at both of their web pages, though, as they might provide good insight as to what is appropriate for the world you are looking to enter.

I do have some strong feelings about the web page. At the home page I'd put a large version of one strong image, or a slide show of several of them. Move all the thumbnails to "Works, " and get rid of the list, as Pieter suggested. That is where I would expect to see actual images, rather than a list. Then you might organize your work into two or three broader categories, like maybe "Industrial Exteriors," Abstracts," etc. I too believe that there are a few weaker images that should be jettisoned, and maybe some that don't fit well with the others, that could be eliminated.

For my tastes, the pages with text are a bit TMI. I'd get rid of both "Resources" and "My Equipment" entirely. Experienced photographers know all about gear, software, etc., and have their own established preferences. Non-photographers won't care, and might see it as too much tech-talk. And do you realize that where you listed artists/photographers who have influenced you, you have listed 67 names? I don't think anyone wants to wade through that list...

Take that last paragraph with a grain of salt. I'm a fan of Antoine de Saint-Exuperay: "Perfection is attained not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away," but it could be that the folks looking at your application materials will love excess. I was on a hiring committee once, and couldn't bring myself to finish reading a lengthy, flowery statement of teaching philosophy. When the committee met to discuss the candidate, one of the other members said they loved it! Of course, they were in the English department, and I was in the math department. Everyone laughed when I started voicing my opinion with "In math, we prize brevity..."

Last of all, good luck! I think you are a fine photographer, and just need to hone your focus and message a little if you want to enter the world of "serious" photography.

Hi Gregg,

Thank you for all of your truly terrific advice, and your kind words. The consensus here (and on reddit, where I also posted) is pretty much verbatim the same - lose the resources, equipment, and FAQ pages (which, I've already taken off). The site is a bit more streamlined, but I REALLY like the idea of having ONE strong image on the homepage instead of the mess that the homepage currently is. Since I don't work in a series, I think the front page is particularly confusing. That said, I will certainly take your advice and turn my works page into a page of broader categories - industrial landscapes, industrial interiors, abstracts, etc. and use thumbnails so viewers don't have to go on clicking on titles just to view an image, which I already know is annoying a lot of people. I'll also whittle down the names of influences as 67 is surprising even to me!

Anyway, I want to sincerely thank you again for your advice and kind words! Means a lot to me!

-Kris

[manfrominternet]

It's kinda hard to critique prints per se over the web. Your genre is extremely SoCal 70's-ish. There's nothing necessarily wrong with that, and it just depends on what pushes people's buttons or not. Right person, and you might land an open door, wrong person, just one more "move along" and try someone else next. I suspect many of us have been down that path at one time or another, so don't let it discourage you if it happens.

My personal philosophy is to do the kind of work which feels good to me personally, and not worry about the opinions of others. That's always worked for me; but I never applied to any kind of formal educational art venue either. Avoided that trap, but soon got snatched up by some serious gallery representation anyway. Just get progressively better at what you already find rewarding; and as the dust begins settling, see if an academic art career path is relevant for you or not. And don't be afraid to shake up your own style from time to time if that is what you find rewarding.

Thank you, Drew. I appreciate your thoughtful words. I still feel like I'll always be stubborn enough to create the work that I want to make, but not stubborn enough that I'm too inflexible to make any drastic changed in my work. I would like to start working in a series, as practically none of my work is series-related, hence the confusion of the images on the homepage. None of the images have much to do with one another. Since that's not clarified, I think it confuses people.

That said, it appears that I still have lots of work to do with my website. Hopefully it'll be in much better shape a month from now!

Anyway, I want to thank you again for your advice. Always a pleasure to read your responses!

Cheers,

Kris

[manfrominternet]

Got my MFA in Photography at the age of 57. Biggest hurdle was learning how to Art Speak BS. Took me a month or so to be fluent in it. Promised myself that after I graduated, and was teaching college level courses in Photography, that I would never use that language in any of my classes. Actually ended up using it only once when one of my undergrad students tried to use it to impress me. He was no match for me, and never saw it coming back on him and his work.

Hi Greg,

That's awesome to hear that you got your MFA at 57. I say that because, at 36, I felt that I might possibly be 'too old' to get an MFA or would, in some way, be discriminated against just because of my age. (At least that's what one friend worried about for me.) Rest assured, I see a lot of people in their 30s, 40s and 50s get their MFA, so nothing unusualy about that at all.

Anyway, can you recommend any books on art and photo theory to help with my 'art speak'? I've already read Roland Barthes' and Susan Sontag's books on photography, but I can't say that much of it resonated with me.

Many thanks,

Kris

[manfrominternet]

In this gig economy, and with everyone having a camera that will automatically take a technically decent photo, plus all the smartphones having more and more sophisticated cameras, there are very few staff photographer positions available and an MFA is not much of a plus in the commercial, editorial and photojournalistic world. For commercial work, it is all about your portfolio and website. If the art buyer, editor or art director doesn't see what they feel they need from you as a photographer, they are not going to give you an assignment based on your resumé. Which brings me to editing (not in the digital sense) your work. When I was assigning commercial jobs, the great work in a photographers portfolio was important. But just as important was whether there was mediocre work being shown as well. That said to me that the photographer might not be able to distinguish great from good from so-so. And I did not want that lack of a critical eye from a photographer working on my assignment. I was just as responsible for the quality of the work as the photographer I hired. Except maybe it was my job on the line.

It might behoove you to talk to some of graduates of the programs you are applying for. Who are the professors and do they actually teach any of the classes or mentor any of the students? Graduate work, especially in the arts is about independent projects and developing a voice. You might need to learn some art-talk, but as long as you realize that that is what it is and don't drink the kool-aid, you'll be OK.

One of my good friends is a Polish-American girl who graduated from Yale's Photography MFA program in 2015. (Here's her website to anyone who is interested to see what kind of work comes from a student who graduated from a 'top notch' photography MFA program: ilonaszwarc.com) Anyway, her portfolio that got her into Yale photography MFA program is "American Girls" and "Rodeo Girls", which you can find on her website. She also said that a letter of recommendation from Joel Meyerowitz is probably what helped her the most to get into Yale's MFA photography program.

[manfrominternet]

I think Kris has gotten some good critique so far and much of it has been consistent. I like this group because most of the people are respectful and the answers balanced across the board.

Absolutely! Everyone here has been incredibly thoughtful, kind, and very supportive. (I definitely can't say the same with Reddit.) I think I've received a LOT of terrific advice here from basically everyone that responded. I think this forum and community is pretty special in that regard; people are eager to help you succeed, so I'm incredibly grateful for that.

[manfrominternet]

Hi Kris,

I have no personal experience with the "art scene", other than being an observer, or with the educational segment, other than having spent a rather disgruntled 13yrs shoved into a desk in a classroom
However, I have known many people who went the "MFA route", and none of them have landed where they thought they wanted to go. I was 18 when I started with photography seriously, and I thought to myself "I want to be a photographer". So I landed a job working at Samy's in Pasadena(back when they were on Walnut by Parsons), and that experience selling film, paper and accessories taught me a heckuva lot. I was interacting with Art Center students every day, along with many professors. Lots of PCC students too(of which I was one myself shortly after my 18mos at Samys), but all the "students" seemed to share one trait: they had no money. I was considering an application to Art Center, as I had read great things about it and all, but I didn't know what I know now, 13yrs later. The MFA route, unless you absolutely want to teach, is pretty much a dead duck. With the internet, you can get exposure through other means, and with c*vid still shitting on in-person interactions like gallery showings(at least here in LA for the time being), what is the purpose of an MFA for you? I spent much of my 20s working as an assistant, then digital tech, on jobs here in LA, so I got to speak with lots of photographers who had MFA's, some who just had loads of grit and knew how to work, etc. The best ones, IMO, were self-taught realists who didn't bring frills to set. They were fun, down to earth people who cut their teeth assisting or in some other role before jumping to handling the camera.

I ask these things, because after reading your bio, I believe all men have a purpose that give them a drive necessary to get out of bed in the morning. Sadly, many never realize that, because they listen to the world, not themselves. Will an MFA help you pay your bills, or will it put you into a financial hole that will take years and loads of stress to relieve yourself from? Is an MFA going to give you extra skills to make better photographs, or is it more of a dick-measuring contest with other "artists" who look down their nose at people without a piece of paper framed on the wall?

There are plenty of terrific photographers who have a "day job" but also have time(and funding) to express themselves through their photography, without resorting to credit lines, IOU's and living in roach-filled apartments they'll never own.
You're a little older than me it looks like, but having a job outside of my passion allows me to really explore that passion, without feeling a need to produce for others. YMMV of course. The last thing I want to see others plagued with, is debt.

Lastly, consider your life goals as a whole outside of photography: Do you want(or already have?) a family? Do you want to own a home, or are you ok with living off tinned beans and food stamps while you get your MFA and until it's paid off? Some might say that's mean and untrue, but I can count on more than two hands people I know who went the "higher education route" instead of learning a valuable trade that is actually needed by others in real life. They're all broke, most are living with parents, have no real purpose, or are on UBI. A small example of the opposite: a friend of mine from high school, like myself, barely scratched through. He went to work with his dad, who had a 1-man plumbing business. Well, fast forward to today, he's now the president of the company, a licensed plumber with multiple certifications, and has 9 crews of 2 men/crew out making him money 6 days/week. He still goes out to larger jobs, but more as a foreman. Most of his employees are older than him, but they rely on him to bring the work in. He has time to dedicate to his wife and son(with a second on the way), and he just gave all his employees a 15% raise once he paid off his house in 2021(5yrs after signing the mortgage). He's 33, and here in LA. It's called hard work, and cash money talks. Putting up with other peoples sh*t, literally, can pay really well. His hobby is woodworking, but he has found great enjoyment in training young people in plumbing too. Win/win. He's now getting into social media since he found out he can get get gifted tools to "review" haha.

Ansel Adams shot a lot of commercial work, but that gets glossed over by many when speaking about him. But that's how he kept his lights on, belly full, and gas in his tank during many of his years before getting noticed later in life.

Hi Daniel,

What you wrote is all gold. And you're right about the debt trap. That is VERY real, and I know some people who are in the hole for $250K who graduated with me from NYU's film school - and that's JUST for a BFA. That said, I certainly would not go into an MFA program if I had to take out any student loans. I do know that Yale and UCLA offer full rides to those who show need. However, Stanford's MFA program is fully paid for and, not only that, you get a nice and rather hefty yearly stipend to do your artwork. I can't say the same for CalArts, RISD, or ArtCenter.

You may very well be right - an MFA might not help much, and if it means putting myself into debt then I'd pass without hesitation. I still have a bit of homework to do on the topic for sure.