Film and winter temperature swings going on location

[Mudrunner]

I am taking my 4x5 into the great outdoors and particularly the Canadian winter. I am familiar with using my 35mm and 120, but I wondered if there are any particular considerations with LF film. I expect a typical day would be getting from my home into a heated car, then out into the location....sometimes the shots might be car-side, sometimes several hours by ski. There will be some overnight excursions, but the temperature fluctuations are relatively slow.

My background with LF was in the studio (many moons ago). We were meticulous with film and that included checking emulsion batches for colour correction and getting film out of the fridge and down to room temperature the night before a shoot. Should I be concerned with the ability of the film to adapt? Should I actually leave it in the freezer until I go out to shoot? Does the size of the film create an exponential concern that is not present in 35mm?

[domaz]

The greatest concern is probably getting condensation on your film holders. Keep them in a plastic bag and don't open them going from a hot cold to very cold air. Probably an even greater concern with LF is shutters, older ones tend to act completely differently in cold weather than do at room temperature. That is they start working very slowly or hanging up, it can be pretty frustrating so test any shutters by putting them in a plastic bag in the freezer for a bit and operating them through the bag.

[Mudrunner]

The greatest concern is probably getting condensation on your film holders. Keep them in a plastic bag and don't open them going from a hot cold to very cold air. Probably an even greater concern with LF is shutters, older ones tend to act completely differently in cold weather than do at room temperature. That is they start working very slowly or hanging up, it can be pretty frustrating so test any shutters by putting them in a plastic bag in the freezer for a bit and operating them through the bag.

Ah yes...and being on the west side of the Rockies, there is ample moisture in the air.

[r.e.]

Ah yes...and being on the west side of the Rockies, there is ample moisture in the air.

Coincidentally, there's a guy on the east side of the Rockies who has a thread going on the Photrio large format sub-forum about the same issue: Working in the Cold

Being on the east side, and leaving aside chinooks*, he at least has an excuse for bemoaning winter cold. You have my sympathies if you're up around Fort St. John, but otherwise that "ample moisture in the air" is mostly rain, right?

* Alberta name for a föehn wind.

[Mudrunner]

Coincidentally, there's a guy on the east side of the Rockies who has a thread going on the Photrio large format sub-forum about the same issue: Working in the Cold

Being on the east side, and leaving aside chinooks*, he at least has an excuse for bemoaning winter cold. You have my sympathies if you're up around Fort St. John, but otherwise that "ample moisture in the air" is mostly rain, right?

* Alberta name for a föehn wind.

Ha, yes! Nice! I'll head over there for a read!
Also...yes, most moisture is rain in the low elevations, but higher up, it's the white stuff and the cold. ...even the Coast Mountains (not the Vancouver area...but more inland and north) get -20c and moisture. Fairly dry/cold in the Selkirks, and Purcells, but the Kootenays have their moist/cold days In fact, there was one night(coming out of the bar...) it was so cold/moist (-30c?) when we put a loonie in the Kimberly cuckoo clock, and upon his exit from the top of the clock door, Happy Hans froze in his leiderhosen ...he kept yodelling for hours.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V812SqQZCFY

[maltfalc]

The greatest concern is probably getting condensation on your film holders. Keep them in a plastic bag and don't open them going from a hot cold to very cold air.

that's the opposite of what you should do. going from hot to cold, you need to minimize the amount of warm, moist air trapped in your gear or the moisture will condense out as the trapped air cools down. when going from cold to hot, keep all your gear sealed away until it warms up or it'll cool the warm air touching it and cause condensation. some desiccant packs in your bags and cases to minimize moisture before going out in the cold couldn't hurt either.

[otto.f]

that's the opposite of what you should do. going from hot to cold, you need to minimize the amount of warm, moist air trapped in your gear or the moisture will condense out as the trapped air cools down. when going from cold to hot, keep all your gear sealed away until it warms up or it'll cool the warm air touching it and cause condensation. some desiccant packs in your bags and cases to minimize moisture before going out in the cold couldn't hurt either.

Agree

[otto.f]

The greatest concern is probably getting condensation on your film holders. Keep them in a plastic bag and don't open them going from a hot cold to very cold air. Probably an even greater concern with LF is shutters, older ones tend to act completely differently in cold weather than do at room temperature. That is they start working very slowly or hanging up, it can be pretty frustrating so test any shutters by putting them in a plastic bag in the freezer for a bit and operating them through the bag.

When keeping in a plastic bag, I’d use silica gel. But I would prefer winding them in the cotton of my dark cloth

[Alan9940]

As domaz said, condensation and slowing shutters are probably your biggest concerns. I haven't worked in extreme cold for over 20 years, but back when I did I kept everything in the trunk of my car while out and about; theory here was that all the equipment and film holders would normalize to the colder conditions, thereby eliminating (or, at least, minimizing) the risk of condensation. Nothing much you can do about the shutters slowing down. I used to fire the shutter several times before the actual exposure and, through experience, I knew how much to close down the aperture to compensate for the slower shutter speed. My old Ilex shutters seemed to be more prone to the cold than the newer Copal shutters, though all were affected to some degree. Another issue that you may not have considered is your hands! LF cameras generally require the availability of nimble fingers to work the controls. When it wasn't too cold, I used the style of gloves that leaves your fingertips exposed. When it was near or below zero, I used the type of glove that folded over your fingers. When you needed your hands, fold back the top part and it attached via velcro to the back of your hand. Might also use a large over-glove, too, in the bitter cold.

Good luck! I loved shooting LF in the winter. Actually, it was my favorite season to make photographs.

[Mudrunner]

As domaz said, condensation and slowing shutters are probably your biggest concerns. I haven't worked in extreme cold for over 20 years, but back when I did I kept everything in the trunk of my car while out and about; theory here was that all the equipment and film holders would normalize to the colder conditions, thereby eliminating (or, at least, minimizing) the risk of condensation. Nothing much you can do about the shutters slowing down. I used to fire the shutter several times before the actual exposure and, through experience, I knew how much to close down the aperture to compensate for the slower shutter speed. My old Ilex shutters seemed to be more prone to the cold than the newer Copal shutters, though all were affected to some degree. Another issue that you may not have considered is your hands! LF cameras generally require the availability of nimble fingers to work the controls. When it wasn't too cold, I used the style of gloves that leaves your fingertips exposed. When it was near or below zero, I used the type of glove that folded over your fingers. When you needed your hands, fold back the top part and it attached via velcro to the back of your hand. Might also use a large over-glove, too, in the bitter cold.

Good luck! I loved shooting LF in the winter. Actually, it was my favorite season to make photographs.

Yes...I suspect I'll be firing the shutter a few times to get it ready...and I'll need to experiment to see where speeds go to. When you mention extreme temperatures, at what point is that a concern? 15f? -5f? -15f?
AS far as fingers go...good point..especially since the Toyo is a metal brick, it'll conduct the cold quite quickly. I'm a former alpinist/climber, so working with my hands in the cold is familiar. I use a snug liner glove under my mittens and place a heat pad inside the mitten for instant relief (a cold hand in a cold mitt, just stays cold).