# Thread: USING TILT and SWING TOGETHER

1. ## USING TILT and SWING TOGETHER

Suppose that your composition has elements in both vertical and horizontal planes that you want sharp and stopping down won't do it. Assuming that your camera has base tilts only, would you focus on the far element in the vertical plane and tilt for the near element and reiterate until both points are sharp. and then focus for the (far?) point in the horizontal plane and swing until the second point in that plane is sharp and reiterate as necessary. Then recheck focus in both planes and correct as necessary? Would it make and difference if you used the horizontal plane first?

Thomas

2. ## Re: USING TILT and SWING TOGETHER

your camera only has one focal plane, not independent vertical and horizontal planes. swing is just sideways tilt. if you use both swing and tilt you're just getting diagonal tilt. the word you're probably looking for is axis, not plane. just tilt your front standard diagonally in whatever direction works to make all the points equally out of focus then focus and readjust as necessary. if you're trying to get more than three points in focus at once they all have to be on the same plane, like windows that are all on the same wall, get it?

3. ## Re: USING TILT and SWING TOGETHER

While there is indeed but one actual plane of focus...I think the OP was referencing subject/object planes...of which there can be many at one time, depending on both what's out there...and the priorities of the person behind the camera.

4. ## Re: USING TILT and SWING TOGETHER

This reminds me of that illustrative article in an issue of View Camera way back with all the toilet paper strung from camera to object planes/points LOL.

5. ## Re: USING TILT and SWING TOGETHER

It doesn't matter in which order you adjust the tilt and swing. Try to visualize where the critical points are for both the tilt and swing axes and make the best possible compromise you can with the available depth of field. The best location for the focal plane is often somewhere between the nearest and farthest important objects-- the idea is they should both pop into focus at the same time as you stop the lens down. All of the movements inevitably interact, so you just have to go with what's on the ground glass.

FWIW, I usually set the tilt axis first (front or back) and then the swing axis (front), but that's just my habit.

6. ## Re: USING TILT and SWING TOGETHER

Originally Posted by Joe O'Hara
It doesn't matter in which order you adjust the tilt and swing. Try to visualize where the critical points are for both the tilt and swing axes and make the best possible compromise you can with the available depth of field. The best location for the focal plane is often somewhere between the nearest and farthest important objects-- the idea is they should both pop into focus at the same time as you stop the lens down. All of the movements inevitably interact, so you just have to go with what's on the ground glass.

FWIW, I usually set the tilt axis first (front or back) and then the swing axis (front), but that's just my habit.
This is how I work as well.

7. ## Re: USING TILT and SWING TOGETHER

Visualizing where you want the plane of sharp focus to lie in the subject area is really important, as Joe points out. Finding focus points for applying both the tilt movement and the swing movement is the next step. Choosing these points well is the key to getting the focus plane positioned where you want it easily, so spend some time with this step before you start fiddling with the camera.

While three points define a plane, I like to work with four, two points for tilt (top and bottom of the ground glass) and two points for the swing (right and left on the ground glass). I like to get the focus points for the first movement I plan to apply as close to the axis of the reciprocal movement as possible; that is, if I plan on applying tilt first (which I recommend if you have base tilts, see below), then I find two points top and bottom that lie along the swing axis (center line of the gg if you have center-axis swings, like most cameras, or along the asymmetrical axis if you have, and plan on using, asymmetrical swings). This means that when I apply the swing, these points will remain in focus and I'll be spared having to refocus, check and readjust the swing.

Yes, you can use a common point for both movements, say a point high and on the right of the ground glass that would work for both swing and tilt, but you'll find that you need to refocus after applying both movements. If you choose points for tilt that lie on the swing axis (or vice versa if you need to apply swing first), then you won't have to refocus after applying the second movement.

If your camera has base tilt, I'd recommend applying that first, since you'll have to be refocusing after tilting and doing an iteration or two to get everything where you want it anyway. After the tilt is set, i.e., both top and bottom focus points sharp on the ground glass, and if both these points lie on the tilt axis then swinging around the axis to get both right and left points in focus is all you have to do; no more refocusing needed.

Hope this helps,

Doremus

8. ## Re: USING TILT and SWING TOGETHER

I have back asymmetrical tilt on my Chamonix. What's recommended procedure for this one?

9. ## Re: USING TILT and SWING TOGETHER

Yaw free controls differ. Sinar even had two different patents, one for the P series, the other for the F. There are further variations from other manufacturers, especially once Sinar's patents expired. I learned their method, then largely forgot because it had little impact of my own manner of shooting. With studio tabletop work, it might. But in architecture, the camera bed is frequently leveled first, and then tilts and swings involved, while in tabletop work, the camera is generally oriented so that only tilt is necessary, and not swing. Then out in the field, the sheer complexity of planes simply don't always cooperate with simple formulas. But as a matter of habit, I adjust tilt first, then if necessary, swing, then tweak the tilt and focus a little more to the most optimal overall.

Sorry, Alan, but I can't help you with that Chamonix. I've seen them up close, but not personally used them.

10. ## Re: USING TILT and SWING TOGETHER

Originally Posted by Drew Wiley
Yaw free controls differ. Sinar even had two different patents, one for the P series, the other for the F. There are further variations from other manufacturers, especially once Sinar's patents expired. I learned their method, then largely forgot because it had little impact of my own manner of shooting. With studio tabletop work, it might. But in architecture, the camera bed is frequently leveled first, and then tilts and swings involved, while in tabletop work, the camera is generally oriented so that only tilt is necessary, and not swing. Then out in the field, the sheer complexity of planes simply don't always cooperate with simple formulas. But as a matter of habit, I adjust tilt first, then if necessary, swing, then tweak the tilt and focus a little more to the most optimal overall.

Sorry, Alan, but I can't help you with that Chamonix. I've seen them up close, but not personally used them.
Sinar patented their assymetric axis movement on some of their cameras. The did not have a patent on yaw free movements nor could they have received a patent on it. It simply meant that the swing movement was under the tilt movement.
Any camera that was not yaw free became yaw free if it was swung 90° on the head. Once that was done the swing is under the tilt and it is then yaw free.

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