Ektar Lenses in a Different Shutter?

[Ari]

I'm considering going back to an Ektar or Commercial Ektar lens for portrait work.
I would have done so in the past, but those Acme/Ilex shutters are deal-breakers for me.
They start to break down once they arrive from the repair shop, and never seem to work properly anyway.
They're fiddly to use and are huge with odd-sized holes needed for lens boards.

Rant over, now I'm wondering if it's possible to use the 12" Commercial Ektar in a different shutter.
Compound shutter, maybe?
If no one has tried it here, I'll give SK Grimes a call.

Thanks

[Oslolens]

Could you not use a Fujinon-L instead? It's my understanding they are just as good as an Commercial Ektar. You find them ready installed in Copal shutters? Less costly than calling skgrimes.com.

Or a home made aplanat made of two identical close-up lenses 250-300mm when combined. You need 56mm shutter-adapter rings for Copal #3S and 58mm for Copal #3.
I have ordered my M58x0.75 (58mm) thread extender for Copal #3 from Rafcamera.com

[Bernice Loui]

Sinar shutter, done.
Been doing this for decades with zero fail.

Parts needed to convert the 810M to Sinar shutter, Sinar shutter with Sinar cable release, one Sinar bellows frame to attach the Toyo bellows to, two machined to fit bars to convert the Sinar frame to fit the Toyo 8x10M. Sinar lens boards in place of the Toyo lens boards.

Hint, it is easy to convert the Toyo 810M front standard to a Sinar frame allowing using a Sinar shutter on the Toyo 810M which allows the 810M to use a HUGE variety of barrel lenses. This was done about two decades ago and became one of the best 8x10 field folders ever used.

One other BIG consideration of why barrel lenses instead of modern shutters has to do with barrel lenses have a nice round iris, not the kinda round iris of modern lenses. This became a real "issue" with Hasselblad Zeiss lenses and one of the reasons why never those Hasselblad Zeiss lenses again. Or why older Compur, Ilex, Compound (much under appreciated) are tolerated on the TK23s.


Bernice

[Ari]

Could you not use a Fujinon-L instead? It's my understanding they are just as good as an Commercial Ektar. You find them ready installed in Copal shutters? Less costly than calling skgrimes.com.

Or a home made aplanat made of two identical close-up lenses 250-300mm when combined. You need 56mm shutter-adapter rings for Copal #3S and 58mm for Copal #3.
I have ordered my M58x0.75 (58mm) thread extender for Copal #3 from Rafcamera.com

Thanks, Oslo. I recently sold a Fujinon-L 300mm lens because I found it a bit too sterile for my liking.
Sharp and contrasty enough, for sure, but not a look I got attached to.

Sinar shutter, done.
Been doing this for decades with zero fail.

Parts needed to convert the 810M to Sinar shutter, Sinar shutter with Sinar cable release, one Sinar bellows frame to attach the Toyo bellows to, two machined to fit bars to convert the Sinar frame to fit the Toyo 8x10M. Sinar lens boards in place of the Toyo lens boards.

Hint, it is easy to convert the Toyo 810M front standard to a Sinar frame allowing using a Sinar shutter on the Toyo 810M which allows the 810M to use a HUGE variety of barrel lenses. This was done about two decades ago and became one of the best 8x10 field folders ever used.

One other BIG consideration of why barrel lenses instead of modern shutters has to do with barrel lenses have a nice round iris, not the kinda round iris of modern lenses. This became a real "issue" with Hasselblad Zeiss lenses and one of the reasons why never those Hasselblad Zeiss lenses again. Or why older Compur, Ilex, Compound (much under appreciated) are tolerated on the TK23s.


Bernice

Thanks, Bernice, but I don't want to add weight to my 8x10, it's at 6.5 pounds and I did a lot of work to get it there.

I could look into another 300mm lens if anyone has suggestions. I like the sharp/smooth look of Ektars, and I'm stuck on the 12"/300mm FL.
Thank you

[Bernice Loui]

Weight added to the Sinar shutter converted 810M would be just over 500 grams or little more than a shutter large enough to support a shutter for a 12" / 300mm f4.5 or f6.3 lens. Know the Ektar lenses in barrel are aluminum significantly lower weight than the in shutter version. On balance the weight difference ends up being similar.. and if the Sinar shutter is not used, no weight added to the 810M as the weight of the Sinar frame is about the same or less than the larger Toyo front frame.

Sinar shutter is used only when needed on the 810M. Otherwise, it works/weights identical to the OEM 810M with Sinar lens boards.


Bernice

Thanks, Bernice, but I don't want to add weight to my 8x10, it's at 6.5 pounds and I did a lot of work to get it there.

I could look into another 300mm lens if anyone has suggestions. I like the sharp/smooth look of Ektars, and I'm stuck on the 12"/300mm FL.
Thank you

[Ari]

Got it, Bernice. The only issue is the 810M, as I no longer have one.
I sold it a couple years back and got a Wehman, 10 pounds lighter than the Toyo.

[interneg]

A Packard shutter and a barrel 12" Commercial Ektar would seem the least troublesome option. Can't say I'm a fan of the Sinar shutter device - unless you really need the whole mechanical automation thing with miles of linkage cables.

On the other hand, the Alphax shutter design seems pretty solid in my experience.

[Greg]

I would have done so in the past, but those Acme/Ilex shutters are deal-breakers for me.
They start to break down once they arrive from the repair shop, and never seem to work properly anyway.
They're fiddly to use and are huge with odd-sized holes needed for lens boards.

I beg to differ... I have five lenses in different generations of ILEX Universal #5 shutters, including a 14" Ektar, and I have had zero problems with any of them over the years. The #5 that my 14" Ektar is mounted in was in questionable storage for probably 40 years before I acquired it. After firing it several times a day over a week or so, it has consistently worked just fine for me. Speeds one every one of my #5's have been consistently accurate except for 1/25 and 1/50 which are slow, but I never use these two speeds.

Yes they are huge, but fit just fine on my Sinar boards.

[Jody_S]

I've never had trouble with Ilex shutters either, except for the one I'm currently working on, and the trouble is entirely my fault. When removing a piece, the attached spring went flying over my shoulder and I can't find it in the jumble that is my office. But that's not really the point. If you dislike Ilex shutters but like Commercial Ektars, I don't see why Grimes can't mount one for you in a Copal 3. Someone would have to calculate the largest size you can mount without losing stops on your aperture, I suspect 10", but if Grimes is cutting up and machining the brass, I don't see why they couldn't mount a 12" and it might work out to f7.5 or whatever. I note on eBay that the Xenar 300/5.6 came in a Copal 3, so you might even manage to fit a 14" 6.3. Of course this would cost you a pretty penny, and I'm not sure you would recoup your money if you decided to sell. Much easier I suppose to adapt them to a Betax 4 or Shanel 5, but then you're back in the 70-80 year-old shutter problem.

And I totally understand why you want a Commercial Ektar over a Fujinon L, I will never part with my B&Ls. You might be able to get the look you want from the Fujinon by selectively polishing off the coating, but I'm not sure that's the way to go either.

[Jim Noel]

I'm with Greg. i have 7 Ilex shutters, none of which cause me any problems. I bought 2 of these new in the 1940's and 50's. The others have been acquired through the years with various lenses mounted on them. I check their speeds on a regular basis. None have ever been sent to the shop by me.