Arca Swiss F line Metric 4x5"

[Fermat]

Hi All,
In the F line Metric 4x5 "there are various versions, in addition to the standard/basic one there two more called C and C Field.
For those who have used or know the standard/basic version can you give me some advice if that configuration is suitable for natural landscape photos or for Urban landscape? However always outdoor.
I would like to carry it in a backpack. Some long walks can be planned.
Thanks in advance.

[r.e.]

Hi Mario,

I use an Arca-Swiss camera and if you do a search you'll find a good number of threads about them on this forum. They are completely modular cameras, and I can configure mine for both 4x5 and 8x10.

They are wonderful cameras for outdoor use, including for rural and urban landscape, and I'd be very surprised if anyone would disagree with that.

There isn't enough information in your post to give useful advice on configuration. Your reference to the "C" version suggests that you are interested in a 300mm rail. On the "C" version, the rail folds in half to make the camera more compact. I have no experience with the "C" rail, so I hesitate to say much about it. I can tell you that I have a standard 300mm rail and that I have no problem carrying the camera around with it in place.

Many years ago, Arca-Swiss made a version of its camera called the Arca-Swiss Discovery. That camera had the 300mm standard rail. It was marketed specifically to young people enrolled in photography and fine art programs. I don't think that those students had any trouble transporting the camera, including in backpacks.

Hopefully the following will convey just how modular Arca-Swiss cameras are. My own camera started as a Discovery. I've just added a number of components to it over the years. I can use it as a 4x5 or 8x10 camera with a rail and bellows as short as 300mm and as long as 700mm. I also have a short bellows for wide angle lenses.

[Fermat]

Thanks for your comment.
What I am interested is in a configuration where the rail is at minimum length.
I am not sure but if I understood well from the pictures I see in the web you can use half part of the rail removing the rail at the base and the other second half and put this in the backpack disassembled. Sorry for my English and I hope you can understand.
If this is the case the Classic version can be the right one as well.
Interesting the fact you can transform in 8x10 as well.
Thanks
Mario

[alan_b]

I believe "Field" in Arca-Swiss speak means a 110mm (6x9) front standard with 4x5 rear, with a tapered bellows. (Instead of 141 or 171mm standards front & rear.) If you're going no larger than a 4x5 back, the 110mm front is fine. If you want to use 5x7 or 8x10 backs, it would mean limited front rise or adding on a riser block. (Maybe there aren't even 6x9–5x7/8x10 bellows?

"C" means folding rail as r.e. said. The other type is the telescoping, often two 150mm upper sections with a 300mm base, that can extend up to 450mm or so.

I have the telescoping type, and slide both standards onto one 150mm rail section, then store the rest of the rail elsewhere in the pack. This way, it's effectively as compact as the C folding rail, with the option to extend longer.

[r.e.]

Like Alan, I have a telescoping rail, although mine consists of two 250mm sections on a 500mm base. As he says, there's more than one way to get a 150mm rail for carrying purposes. The "C" collapsing rail is one of them. I'm sure that it works fine, but I've never used one.

As Alan says, your decision on your base camera has a bearing on how easy/expensive it is to use the camera for 5x7 or 8x10.

If it's possible, I would suggest that you go to an Arca-Swiss dealer and see how the system works for yourself. Indeed, Arca-Swiss is in Besançon, not particularly far from Milan. Might make for a nice drive, a good dinner with some Jura wine, an overnight stay and a new camera to pick up in the morning

[Fermat]

The point to have a system expandable till 8x10 is quite interesting. For sure in the future I would expand to a bigger format.
This choise is future proof.

In addition the way to have a 150mm rail with on top both standards is a good way to easily carry the system.

So at the end no big difference btw classic and C.
The field version at the end will have a specific application.

Not able to go to dealer in France and I cannot find one near Milan.

Inviato dal mio M2101K6G utilizzando Tapatalk

[r.e.]

Not able to go to dealer in France and I cannot find one near Milan.

You could give Arca-Swiss a call in Besançon and ask them to suggest a dealer. There's a reasonable chance that somebody at the office speaks Italian. If so, they could help with your questions. Arca-Swiss is owned by a family named Vogt. I've met two of them (very helpful people), but there may have been some generational change in the last few years, and I don't know which member of the family is in charge at this point.

[biedron]

I have 4x5 and 8x10 Arca Swiss cameras. Regarding the rail choice, folding or telescoping, there are a couple of considerations. In packing an Arca, both standards slide onto a single rail unit. That means the packed depth of the camera is a function of the smallest rail length. A 15cm rail from a telescoping unit will result in the smallest packed depth - when folded, the folding rail will be a little longer than 15cm (perhaps 16-17cm). Not a huge difference, but a consideration.

The folding rail system will be lighter than the telescoping, since the base into which the rail slides is much shorter. However, if you plan on using longer focal length lenses, and/or converting to 8x10, I would suggest the telescoping version. To extend the folding rail beyond 30cm, you need to purchase an extension rail of length 25cm, for a total of 55cm. For very long lenses you might need another 25cm extension, all held by the small base unit. It seems like that would not be nearly as sturdy a set up as the telescoping unit. As mentioned in another reply above, the telescoping unit that usually comes with the 4x5 size camera has 2 15cm rails that will extend to about 450mm. Replace one of those 15cm rails with a 30cm or 40cm rail and now you can extend out to around 60cm or 70cm if needed. For storage, you'd leave the camera on the 15cm section and leave the longer rail on the base unit. Arca also has longer (40cm and 50cm) telescoping units typically for the 8x10. But again, for the most compact packing, you will want at least one 15cm section (this is true for 8x10 too).

I don't think Arca makes an 8x10 bellows that goes down to the 110mm front standard of the "field" 4x5. So if you hope to convert between 4x5 and 8x10 with one camera, you pretty much have to go with the larger 141mm front standard on the 4x5 camera. Technically, you could go 8x10 to 141mm bellows, then 141 to 110 bellows (the size used for the field 4x5), but that would require an additional format frame and function carrier.

So as others have noted the Arca system is extremely adaptable. And if buying new, I think Arca will work with you to build the base system to your liking (say a 4x5 telescoping 30cm base with a 30cm rail and a 15cm rail instead of 2 15cm rails). If buying used, many of these parts are pretty rare. 8x10 conversion units don't appear all that often. Also be aware that Arca has changed format sizes over the years. For example, there was a time when the front frame on the 8x10 was 171mm and not the 141mm they use today. I purchased my cameras used, and have dedicated 4x5 and 8x10 cameras. The 4x5 has the newer 110mm front frames while the 8x10 has the older 171mm front frame.

Rod Klukas is the USA Arca representative, and he posts fairly frequently here. He may chime in at some point with suggestions and correct any errors in my descriptions...

Bob

[mhayashi]

If you want a system with arca, considering the future upgrade to 8x10,
I recommend you the 141mm standard F line classic 4x5 first, especially if you plan to use longer focal length lenses like 300mm to 360mm with 4x5.
Then upgrade to 8x10 F-line classic conversion kit.

Or for the lightest and most compact, misura 8x10.

In future, if you are going to 8x10 portrait by fast brass lenses, the older 171mm F line classic standard is better and cheaper used than the current 141mm standard. This is simply due to the large diameters of the fast long brass lenses.

I personally prefer the 171mm standard because of the merit above.

Be aware metric is a bit bulkier than classic.
Metric is self locking geared system, meaning it can handle modern lenses, but not old brass heavy lenses especially if you choose the front orbix micrometric or dynamic. The F classic has the manual locking system, which can handle the heavy brass lenses.

The 8x10 metric rear frame does not have rise, the 8x10 classic rear has rise with the manual lock.
Having used both metric and classic, I prefer the classic for weight advantage, more movements for 8x10, compactness and sturdiness to handle heavy lenses….

[agregov]

Lots of great responses in the thread. One note on front frame sizes for 4x5, landscape shooting should be fine with the 110 front standard with regard to rise/fall. For architectural shooting, a 141 would be a better option for bigger rise/fall movements if you ever want to do that in the future.

With regard to the conversion kits (5x7 & 8x10), they are expensive. You could likely get a dedicated 8x10 for the same money. Converting the camera, especially in the field is a nuisance IMO. I personally would focus on setting up your ideal 4x5 and wait on worrying about the larger formats until you’re ready to think about it. It’s a lot of effort to put together the perfect camera system from 45 to 810. And your needs may change in the future.