Small claims court for copyright cases?

[Drew Wiley]

Brian - Doesn't work like that in small claims. And there is no way there can be two film originals. And nobody makes serious chrome dupes anymore, at least commercially. Outright stealing original artwork by an insider is another matter entirely. Gosh does that get complicated in intellectual theft when trade secrets are involved! I remember that happening when my wife worked for a local Biotech firm, and the culprit was an industrial spy working for the biggest pharma producer in the world. It ended with a real interesting standoff.
The point is, unless there is some very significant loss of income involved due to the ruse, no serious lawyer is going to bat for you. They're rarely pro bono. And if he loses, so do you. A blanket trademark or official logo per se should always of course be copyrighted and registered; but how many photographers can afford the time and expense to do that with individual images, unless they know in advance they're going to be financial home runs or otherwise highly important images? But this is still the Wild West of internet days, with few reliable rules.

I've never been in those exact circumstances personally, but did once get officially audited by the IRS about my business. I walked in there with my necessary expense receipts of course. But the interview abruptly ended when I handed them an original 8x10 chrome as a sample of what I do.
They apologized and sent me on my way.

[jnantz]

In a small claims case, with no expensive lawyers involved, I'd think merely walking in there with a 4X5 or 8X10 film original and portable light box, or perhaps even an original slide, would constitute firm evidence against digital piracy, or any other lossy version. But if garden variety digital capture was involved to begin with, perhaps another story, and a tangled ball of yarn legally at this point. And if the culprit happens to be a well-financed corporation, they can simply starve you to death by court delay tactics, just like they do all the time with patent infringements. You never really own a law, but for all practical purposes, have to be able to afford to rent it. It costs.

it doesn't matter what the IRS did, it doesn't work like that in small claims or any court, sorry ... judge / clerk magistrate won't bother, talk to an IP or copyright lawyers their words not mine: 4x5 chromes and negatives in hand don't matter, it needs to be registered ( it didn't matter to the Judge this morning either ) she asked for evidence of it being registered with copyright. paparazzi didn't have it, she was SOL too.

[BrianShaw]

Brian - Doesn't work like that in small claims.

OK, Boomer. I told the true story of a genuine case...

In my case it was indelible proof of precedance provided by independent and dated publication that overcame the lack of registration. Per copyright law, registration is not required to own the copyright, but is often necessary to defend an infringement claim unless there is other corroborating evidence that the court honors. I honestly don't know why we won the trademark infringement; I believe that trademarks must be registered to use the tm tag. The trademark infrigement was so very blantant, though... one less letter. So technically we could have been thrown out on that claim. Our lawyer thought we had a good shot nonetheless due to "first to commerce" proof that we presented. Our patent pending infringement was dismissed because we weren't percived by the court to have progressed enough into the patent process to rightfully claim it as pending.

[Drew Wiley]

I've been an expert witness in small claims a number of times. Whoever has their papers and evidence in order best wins, period. No lawyers involved. In and out in less than 20 minutes. No, not the place for a big battle, or seeking a large sum. And if the big bully is too arrogant to even show, they automatically lose. Its the one scenario which favors the little guy, and why these exist in the first place. No, it's not the place for a formal copyright complaint. But you might be surprised at the scope of what they can handle, and the ability to at least seriously sting an offender, and make them think twice about doing it again.

As far as copyright and patent violations, I saw it first hand over and over and over again due to my tight relation to inventors and would-be manufacturers. Graphics arts too. Yeah, once in awhile some egregious offender gets busted and into big trouble, and then just leaves the State and start up again somewhere else. The odds are in their favor. The regular courts are backed up till the end of time, and everyone knows it. Fortunately, those of us which, to some degree or another, are more involved in selling framed fine prints rather than images for publication are a little better insulated; that kind of thing is too much work to fake, and doesn't bring in enough for a serious counterfeiter anyway. Those types go full industrial in China and then smuggle the product in. Seen it all, counterfeit logo stamps n'all. No sense suing them; on that scale, you call the FBI instead. Been there, done that. Take down one crook, and another instantly pops up in his place.

[bdkphoto]

In a small claims case, with no expensive lawyers involved, I'd think merely walking in there with a 4X5 or 8X10 film original and portable light box, or perhaps even an original slide, would constitute firm evidence against digital piracy, or any other lossy version. But if garden variety digital capture was involved to begin with, perhaps another story, and a tangled ball of yarn legally at this point. And if the culprit happens to be a well-financed corporation, they can simply starve you to death by court delay tactics, just like they do all the time with patent infringements. You never really own a law, but for all practical purposes, have to be able to afford to rent it. It costs.

You cannot litigate copyright claims in small claims court. See post #25. s The CCB has its own requirements for filing. Registering your work with the LOC stacks the legal deck in your favor, and allows you to collect legal fees as well as damages should you prevail. Digital provenance is quite easy - all of the cameras provide metadata with the files that includes camera type/serial#s date and time and contact info.

[BrianShaw]

You cannot litigate copyright claims in small claims court. See post #25. s The CCB has its own requirements for filing. Registering your work with the LOC stacks the legal deck in your favor, and allows you to collect legal fees as well as damages should you prevail. Digital provenance is quite easy - all of the cameras provide metadata with the files that includes camera type/serial#s date and time and contact info.

Since 2020 there is an additional process for copyright claims that aren't big.

https://www.copyright.gov/legislatio...all-claims.pdf

[Drew Wiley]

I'm not talking about a copyright claim per se. If you make you living selling digital stock imagery at pennies on the dollar compared to film stock imagery days, so be it. There are other ways the little guy can do a small claims workaround, just playing the odds. You submit a complaint, they don't show, and automatically lose due to disrespect for the court.
Heck, they might live clear across the country, and sure as heck aren't going to bother. The mere threat of that might make them back off.

Or, if you need a more real muscle behind you, pay a token fee to a real law firm to write a warning letter. Few things go all the way to a serious court because it's way too slow and expensive a process. You're going to drop 50K as fast as a heartbeat. And ambulance chasers aren't interested in copyright infringements. But heck, if someone just wants to be brave and bell the cat, and make an example of them, it's commendable, but a long-odds uphill process. Copyright infringement is almost ubiquitous. You'll be at the back of a very long line. I've had friends go bankrupt that way. The other side can simply stall you till you cave in. Some of the most egregious offenders have in-house legal departments bigger than most Counties in this country themselves have.

But a lot of this question is still probably in flux, just like Brian's pdf post indicates. The options will probably improve; you can't hide an elephant in a room forever. Who knows what the higher courts are looking at in this respect per upcoming sessions.

[BrianShaw]

Cease and desist letters from a lawyer seems to often remedy situations and preclude the necessity of lawsuits. Sometimes even when written by a non-lawyer...

[bdkphoto]

Since 2020 there is an additional process for copyright claims that aren't big.

https://www.copyright.gov/legislatio...all-claims.pdf

That's the CCB I referred to in post #25 - It exists because of the hard work of ASMP, PPA NPPA and many other associations that worked to get the CASE act passed and implemented - I served on the ASMP board when we got the ball rolling to create the CCB.

[Drew Wiley]

And what I stated about an 8x10 chrome... well, admittedly in the wrong context.... But what do you think would have more clout with a jury : two "expert witnesses" making contradictory statements about the inferences of digital metadata, or an actual big film transparency passed along in the hands of jurors to see with their own eyes? That's an easy one. Totally hypothetical of course, and not likely in this day and age unless you just happened to have your 8x10 propped up exactly when the first authentic UFO landed, and Elvis stepped out, and you registered that image, and got offered five hundred thousand dollars for the rights to publish it. But that's less than a pair of dirty sox once worn by Elvis up for sale at the auction house, so really, what is all this fuss about anyway?

But more seriously, glad for the intermediate post by Bruce. Trade associations can often pull together to get common-interest things accomplished via legislation which mere individuals cannot. Really like your personal work too, Bruce. I moonlighted awhile in architectural photography, combining it with color consultation and technical advice for architects; not many interiors, however. Few people realize how much lighting setup in advance that can require. Preferred the moods of daylight, exteriors, and even mixed ext paint color with respect to particular times of day on different sides of a building. Fun stuff.