Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2345 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 50

Thread: Should I get a center filter for my 65mm Nikon-SW f/4 & 90mm Sinaron-W f/6.8?

  1. #31
    Drew Wiley
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    SF Bay area, CA
    Posts
    14,581

    Re: Should I get a center filter for my 65mm Nikon-SW f/4 & 90mm Sinaron-W f/6.8?

    Exactly what Dan said. Most of these designs are quite similar. And the amount of falloff is equivalent between the competing lenses of these different brands, sometimes applying even to slightly different focal lengths. For example, I found that the same Schneider 82mm thread CF specified for their 120 Super Angulon, and which I used on that lens, also worked perfectly for the Nikkor 90/4.5 SW.

  2. #32
    Alan Klein's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    New Jersey was NYC
    Posts
    829

    Re: Should I get a center filter for my 65mm Nikon-SW f/4 & 90mm Sinaron-W f/6.8?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Fromm View Post
    Alan, take out a lens. Any lens. Open its diaphragm completely. Hold the lens at arms length. Look through it. Straight through is. Rotate it slowly and watch what happens to the exit pupil. As you rotate it, the end of the barrel will begin to occlude it. The more you rotate it, the less of the exit pupil will be visible. That's mechanical vignetting.

    Now stop the lens down at least two stops and repeat the exercise. You'll find that the lens can be rotated through a larger angle before the end of the barrel begins to occlude the exit pupil.

    Now do you have the idea?

    I can't read minds, have no idea why Rodenstock and Schneider don't recommend stopping down when not using a CF. They might have believed that thoughtful well-informed photographers would know what to do. But and however, there's not much benefit from shooting a w/a lens wide open with a CF attached since the CF can't put back what the end of the barrel took away.

    Cos^4 is purely optical.

    The only way to reduce mechanical vignetting is to stop down. If, that is, you have a lens that's been designed and built. Ross made some lenses engraved E.M.I. for Extra Marginal Illumination with oversize front and rear elements to reduce mechanical vignetting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Salomon View Post
    The reason is that the center filter will not have any effect until you stop down at least two stops.
    Thanks for the explanation. I think I got it. So the CF extends the length of the lens barrel so it starts to physically vignette when the aperture is fully open, especially with wide angle lenses. So you stop down at least two stops from fully open to eliminate the vignette. Separately from that, if you're using movements, whether with a CF or without, you may reach a point that you start to mechanically vignette. So you can stop down further to eliminate the vignetting.

  3. #33

    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    164

    Re: Should I get a center filter for my 65mm Nikon-SW f/4 & 90mm Sinaron-W f/6.8?

    Dan, where on earth were you able to get a Schneider CF III for less than $200?! That's amazing!

    By the way, I read your article on center filters from front to back. Thank you so much for writing it. It's indispensable to us in the LF community, and I'm certain that I'm not alone in saying this.

    Another member here (hiend61) said: "Your Nikkors 65 and 75mm would dramatically benefit from a center filter when you shot chromes. Any 67mm center filter with a 3X factor
    (1,5 stops factor) will do a decent job, but a 4X filter (2 stops factor) will do a much better job in my opinion. You can use a 4x center filter even with your 90mm."

    Is that true? Do you think that a 4X filter (2 stops factor), instead of a 3X factor (1,5 stops factor), would be a better option for my 65mm/75mm Nikkors and 90mm Sinaron-W f/6.8?

  4. #34

    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    7,899

    Re: Should I get a center filter for my 65mm Nikon-SW f/4 & 90mm Sinaron-W f/6.8?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Klein View Post
    Thanks for the explanation. I think I got it. So the CF extends the length of the lens barrel so it starts to physically vignette when the aperture is fully open, especially with wide angle lenses. So you stop down at least two stops from fully open to eliminate the vignette. Separately from that, if you're using movements, whether with a CF or without, you may reach a point that you start to mechanically vignette. So you can stop down further to eliminate the vignetting.
    You didn't get it at all. The CF does nothing to, by, for, against or with mechanical vignetting. It is denser in the center than at the edge, transmits relatively less light to the center of the image than to the edges. This offsets cos^4.

    But yes, stopping down reduces, sometimes eliminates, mechanical vignetting.

    Stop theorizing, start taking test shots.

  5. #35

    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    7,899

    Re: Should I get a center filter for my 65mm Nikon-SW f/4 & 90mm Sinaron-W f/6.8?

    Quote Originally Posted by manfrominternet View Post
    Is that true? Do you think that a 4X filter (2 stops factor), instead of a 3X factor (1,5 stops factor), would be a better option for my 65mm/75mm Nikkors and 90mm Sinaron-W f/6.8?
    Thanks for the kind word. About using a stronger CF than recommended, try it and see whether you like the effect.

    FWIW, I bought that #III because I wasn't comfortable with the idea of using my Rodenstock 2.5x E67/86 (original CF for all three Apo-Grandagons) on my 58/5.6 Grandagon when shooting 6x12. But I never tried the 2.5x on the 58, really should do it.

    Side point re the kind word. I was motivated to write the CF piece partly by calculations I did when writing my Horseman Exposure Meter article and partly because I was tired of questions about which CF for a Fuji/Nikon w/a lens. With the calculations in mind, I think it would be better to meter TTL than with a hand held meter when using a stronger than recommended CF.

  6. #36

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Spain
    Posts
    275

    Re: Should I get a center filter for my 65mm Nikon-SW f/4 & 90mm Sinaron-W f/6.8?

    Quote Originally Posted by manfrominternet View Post
    Dan, where on earth were you able to get a Schneider CF III for less than $200?! That's amazing!

    By the way, I read your article on center filters from front to back. Thank you so much for writing it. It's indispensable to us in the LF community, and I'm certain that I'm not alone in saying this.

    Another member here (hiend61) said: "Your Nikkors 65 and 75mm would dramatically benefit from a center filter when you shot chromes. Any 67mm center filter with a 3X factor
    (1,5 stops factor) will do a decent job, but a 4X filter (2 stops factor) will do a much better job in my opinion. You can use a 4x center filter even with your 90mm."

    Is that true? Do you think that a 4X filter (2 stops factor), instead of a 3X factor (1,5 stops factor), would be a better option for my 65mm/75mm Nikkors and 90mm Sinaron-W f/6.8?
    As Dan and other members of the forum have stated, Center filters are necessary when shootting chromes with wide angle lenses. The recommended factor of the centerfilter for a certain lens provides good results, but I have found that to my personal taste a filter with a higher factor than recommended produces more even results specially when the shift limits are reached. Nikkor SW 65mm and 75mm lenses have image circles of 170 and 200mm respectively, and in many occasions I find myself reaching the shift limits in 4x5. If the picture includes sky, I find 3x filter good enough, but if the picture is filled with an evenly illuminated surface such as the facade of a building, then I definitely prefer the 4x factor filter, but its my personal taste. No one will be wrong following Dans recommendations for center filters. Excellent job Dan.

  7. #37

    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    164

    Re: Should I get a center filter for my 65mm Nikon-SW f/4 & 90mm Sinaron-W f/6.8?

    Quote Originally Posted by hiend61 View Post
    As Dan and other members of the forum have stated, Center filters are necessary when shootting chromes with wide angle lenses. The recommended factor of the centerfilter for a certain lens provides good results, but I have found that to my personal taste a filter with a higher factor than recommended produces more even results specially when the shift limits are reached. Nikkor SW 65mm and 75mm lenses have image circles of 170 and 200mm respectively, and in many occasions I find myself reaching the shift limits in 4x5. If the picture includes sky, I find 3x filter good enough, but if the picture is filled with an evenly illuminated surface such as the facade of a building, then I definitely prefer the 4x factor filter, but its my personal taste. No one will be wrong following Dans recommendations for center filters. Excellent job Dan.
    Many thanks for clarifying this, I really appreciate it! I may actually want to try a 4x center filter, given what you’ve said. I do shoot a lot of architecture and landscape, so having an even result across the frame is essential to me.

    I’m still having a hard time finding a center filter. Apparently Igor Camera won’t accept returns for items like center filters, so I’m very hesitant to buy their Heliopan 67mm E67/86 center filter, especially since their particular one is engraved and was acquired from a rental house (making me think it’s scratched and beat up).

    Are there any other camera shops you guys would recommend?

  8. #38

    Join Date
    Sep 1998
    Location
    Buford, GA
    Posts
    13,469

    Re: Should I get a center filter for my 65mm Nikon-SW f/4 & 90mm Sinaron-W f/6.8?

    Quote Originally Posted by manfrominternet View Post
    Many thanks for clarifying this, I really appreciate it! I may actually want to try a 4x center filter, given what youve said. I do shoot a lot of architecture and landscape, so having an even result across the frame is essential to me.

    Im still having a hard time finding a center filter. Apparently Igor Camera wont accept returns for items like center filters, so Im very hesitant to buy their Heliopan 67mm E67/86 center filter, especially since their particular one is engraved and was acquired from a rental house (making me think its scratched and beat up).

    Are there any other camera shops you guys would recommend?
    Rental centers usually kept better care of their equipment then sole owners. The terms of their rental contract made the renter liable for damage and all equipment was inspected and cleaned before going out and upon coming back in. Damaged or heavily used items were sold off and taken out of rental stock.

  9. #39

    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    164

    Re: Should I get a center filter for my 65mm Nikon-SW f/4 & 90mm Sinaron-W f/6.8?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Salomon View Post
    Rental centers usually kept better care of their equipment then sole owners. The terms of their rental contract made the renter liable for damage and all equipment was inspected and cleaned before going out and upon coming back in. Damaged or heavily used items were sold off and taken out of rental stock.
    Ah, I didn’t know this. At the same time, however, could it be possible that the engraved center filters from said camera reseller store are the damaged or heavily used ones purchased from a rental center?

  10. #40

    Join Date
    Sep 1998
    Location
    Buford, GA
    Posts
    13,469

    Re: Should I get a center filter for my 65mm Nikon-SW f/4 & 90mm Sinaron-W f/6.8?

    Quote Originally Posted by manfrominternet View Post
    Ah, I didnt know this. At the same time, however, could it be possible that the engraved center filters from said camera reseller store are the damaged or heavily used ones purchased from a rental center?
    Very doubtful. A renter pays for mistreatment.

Similar Threads

  1. Center ND filter for a 65mm Nikkor?
    By Greg in forum Lenses & Lens Accessories
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 18-Jun-2016, 04:49
  2. Center filter for Sinaron W
    By Joshua Dunn in forum Lenses & Lens Accessories
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 22-Oct-2011, 21:50
  3. Center filter for 65mm f/5.6 SA?
    By sog1927 in forum Lenses & Lens Accessories
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 17-Sep-2007, 08:56
  4. Sinar Sinaron 90mm f6.8 center filter
    By Saulius in forum Lenses & Lens Accessories
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 15-Feb-2006, 13:17

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •