Antique Lens research

[Drew Bedo]

I am starting to get my feet a little wet dipinto the area of antique brass lenses. My intention is to do some photography with film and probably dry plates. I have a nice no-name user, a whole plate Rapid Rectilinear, that will soon go on an 8x10. A more recent acquisition in a little Darlot Hemispherique Rapid that looks like a jewel. Ill 'use it eventually, but it did get me interested in looking up the history of Darlot and other makers.

Surprisingly, there doesn't seem to be much information out there. Someone here gave me a link to a French language book, which IS something, and maybe I'll get into that reference at some point, but . . .

What is a bit surprise sing is that in other fields of photographica, Leica, Hasselblad, etc, there are huge amounts of collected information, both in print and online. Folks have collected and collated serial numbers, variations in models and dates of production along with minute evaluations of manufacturer's markings . . .and lots of other stuff. The same is true for many areas of collecting vintage and antique cars and firearms.

I have not found that to be so for these 19th century lenses. Right now, I am interested in getting an overview of the early lenses, trhe makers, designers and the lenses themselves.

From what little I now know, it seems that about four years ago, I stumbled onto a Jamion-Darlot with hood and flange on e-Bay that was let go for parts or just over $50. I gleefully turned it over for at a swap-meet twice that much without really thinking about it. Now I realize that it might have sent one of the Grand-kids to college! Well maybe just bought his books.

Anyway, all of that is just an observation. I feel a little better now,

if there is another reference or online source IN ENGLISH, please let me know.

Cheers

[Dan Fromm]

Drew, have you looked in the list? If you don't know what the list is, please ask.

[jim_jm]

Drew, are you familiar with this site?
The owner hasn't updated the blog in a few years, but there's lots of good information about antique lenses.
He also advertises a lens collector's Vade Mecum for download, which looks pretty extensive.

Cheers!

[goamules]

See the Vade Mecum on lenses too. (update, oops, didn't read the above). There is a page and a half of Jamin (sic) Darlot info. Nothing like serial number to date lists, those don't exist.

There is research out there. But there weren't lens collectors until pretty recently, the past 20 years or so. There have been automobile and firearms collectors as long as those items have been made, after perhaps a 20 year delay. But most large format people were users, and only needed or could afford a handful of lenses from the 1830s to the 1980s. The first people writing lens books are in our generation. It will take a while before the Internet starts revealing the content of those sparse books. But it eventually will, unfortunately for scholars that take the time to publish their work. The only make money during the first period of a book being released, then it's a free for all.

[Drew Bedo]

Thanks guys! Haven't looked yet (grand kids here for a few days), but these recommendations sound like what I am looking for.

[Mark Sawyer]

Kingslake's A History of the Photographic Lens is a great resource, as are the old lens catalogs at Camera Eccentric and for Wollensak exclusively:

https://alphaxbetax.com/wollensak-catalogs-etc/

And of course, D'Agostini's books on French and German lenses of the 1800s.

[pgk]

I've been researching into old lenses myself. The problem compared to say Leica, is often lack of factory records, the fact that many optical firms operated for a short time and few other easily accessible contemporary records. That said, I have found the Photographic Journal to be a great resource https://archive.rps.org as the RPS have a full digital archive which can be searched. The upside is that you can view contemporary information and get a real feel for what was going on right back to the 1850s. The downside is that the language used is a bit ponderous and often needs deciphering, and that few of the original adverts were included when the volumes were originally bound (a real pity, but one or two volumes do have some). Obviously this resource is UK-centric but does cover quite a lot and there are reports on all sorts of equipment from all over if you are prepared to wade through it all. As an example of what I have found out, is that the earliest mention of Wray lenses dates from 1886 when there is a note to say that Wray exhibited some photographic lenses in an exhibition - this is the first reference I can find to Wray (I have a 3 digit serial number Wray so it must date close to this) by about 1900 the original owner had died and lens serial numbers (from surviving models) was up in the region of 10,000 so at least a timeline and production figures can be estimated. Its a terribly time-consuming process though to find anything out because there is a lot to work through.

[pgk]

Kingslake's A History of the Photographic Lens is a great resource.....

It is, but be aware that Kingslake does not seem to have had access to things like all volumes of the Photographic Journal (see my post above) so his history is sometimes not as absolute as it might be - digital archives are wonderful and searchable - he would have had to have journeyed from New York to Bath in England to have viewed this resource and then waded through it manually which it does not seem that he did (hardly surprising). Oddly enough a lens designer friend attended his 90th!

[Dan Fromm]

pgk, look in the references in my Berthiot article. The list has a link to it. They'll take you to the French Photographic Society's bulletin, to Fabre's Aide Memoire de Photographie, to cnam.cnum.fr, to the French National Library, ... Good coverage of continental lenses.

[Drew Bedo]

Thanks everyone. Good stuff here.

Just dipping my toe into old brass lenses. I have a lens marked "Rapid Rectilinear" with no indication of the maker. It has a fully functioning multi leaved iris with f-stops marked. I intend to use it someday.

Recently got a little Darlot that takes drop-in warehouse stops, and I'd I'd like to know a bit more about it and other lenses of similar vintage.

To do some resource sharing myself; I recommend "Handbook of Photography" by Henney and Dudley, published in 1939. It has a great chapter on lens design. The design of photographic optics through the mid 1930s. Nothing really on lens makers or their marks . .what I am looking for just now, but really interesting anyway.