SilverFast Ai Studio 9 (Archive Suite) - Truly RAW Output (RAW Data Scan?)

[Archivist_Goals]

After some initial roadblocks, I have my new v850 color profiled.

Some of you might have seen my post initially under the hardware section, about whether or not a v750 or a v850 would have sufficed. I ended up going with a v850. Unfortunately, almost a 2 month long project refurbishing the 10000XL unit didn't end successfully as the culprit turned out to be a bad CCD sensor.

So: I'm using the v850 scanner with SF Ai Studio 9 Archive Suite and need to produce *actual* RAW - just data - scans of reflective archival material. That is to say, I want to scan without a color profile, no attached ICC, and only what the scanner hardware interprets.

Under Preferences in SF, there's the CMS tab (Color Management Settings)
To achieve an actual RAW scan output, can someone explain what I should have here:

Color Management Checkbox: Do I leave this checked or unchecked?
Input: Select None / Leave blank?
Internal: None is not an option; select Adobe RGB (1998), sRGB, or other?
Gray: Not applicable
Output Printer: Not applicable

Video attached of the menu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zv1owL9WfjA

SilverFast has their own video 'explanation' but still leaves me confused: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZwR1GmAPso.

Seeking guidance for the CMS input selections - can anyone offer input?

[rawitz]

For preferences in Silverfast you should choose Input: Epson V800/850 reflektiv or none, Intern: standard sRGB or wide gammut RGB, Gray: none, Output your "printer" or none. ICC profile none.
To get genuine raw scans, choose in the (upper left) scanmenu "48bit HDR Raw". you get a TIF file to open and post-work in Photoshop or other SW.
With "64bit HDR Raw" you get an additional canal of ICE dust removel data, but this can be opened and post-worked only in SF Archive SW.

regards Rainer

[Archivist_Goals]

For preferences in Silverfast you should choose Input: Epson V800/850 reflektiv or none, Intern: standard sRGB or wide gammut RGB, Gray: none, Output your "printer" or none. ICC profile none.
To get genuine raw scans, choose in the (upper left) scanmenu "48bit HDR Raw". you get a TIF file to open and post-work in Photoshop or other SW.
With "64bit HDR Raw" you get an additional canal of ICE dust removel data, but this can be opened and post-worked only in SF Archive SW.

regards Rainer

Hey Rainer, this helps. Thanks for your input.

<Input: Epson V800/850 reflektiv or none
Intern: standard sRGB or wide gammut RGB
Gray: none
Output your "printer" or none.
ICC profile none.

Doing some further reading, Wide Gamut RGB would be a better choice over Adobe RGB (1998). But why would it be a better choice over sRGB in this context?

Also, can you explain why having an option in this specific setting is mandatory? In other words, why isn't having none/no selection for 'Internal' and option here?

What I'm trying to get at is the difference between SilverFast and Vuescan, and what the equivalent setting would be in the latter?

Thanks!

[Archivist_Goals]

For preferences in Silverfast you should choose Input: Epson V800/850 reflektiv or none, Intern: standard sRGB or wide gammut RGB, Gray: none, Output your "printer" or none. ICC profile none.
To get genuine raw scans, choose in the (upper left) scanmenu "48bit HDR Raw". you get a TIF file to open and post-work in Photoshop or other SW.
With "64bit HDR Raw" you get an additional canal of ICE dust removel data, but this can be opened and post-worked only in SF Archive SW.

regards Rainer

I made this screen recording with a voiceover explaining the settings/questions I still had, included yours. But I'm going to post it here anyway as it's easier to understand what I'm asking https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_WTj7N9joo

Please let me know your thoughts/input, thanks.

-Nick

[rawitz]

Hi Nick,
its not clearly said by Silverfast, but scanning in Raw file mode should override/cancel all single settings we are discussing here.
The discussed settings are made in the second step opening the raw files in Archive SW for post and master processing.
For this post-processing the settings are to your choice, but once made have to be fixed for consistency of the archival output. You also should work out your personal ColorProfile with the included tools.
Unfortunately a rawfile of Silverfast is not exactly a rawfile of Viewscan or Epsonscan, because there are settings in the hardware/software-background we dont know and cannot switch off. You have make your SW decision before your project runs. Viewscan rawfiles cannot be processed in Siverfast Archive SW.

regards Rainer

[Archivist_Goals]

Hey Rainer, thanks!

I wish that was documented somewhere because it would further solidify my belief that it would actually be the case. In other words while I'm confident what you're saying is accurate, it would be nice to see that sourced from Lasersoft/SilverFast support. e.g., it's all anecdotal but it's not anecdotal information that is self-explanatory to the point where it's obvious that it's true regarding selecting HDR RAW which would, as you claim, override all other software settings within the main SilverFast software, excluding HDR Studio, etc.

And yes what you say regarding comparing SF, Vuescan, and Epson Scan makes perfect sense. That a RAW produced in one, is not necessarily equivalent to a RAW produced in another.

At this point, I feel that I've invested too much money - upgrading to the SF Archive Suite - and a lot of time trying to learn the more nuanced settings within this software to switch over to Vuescan Pro as my dedicated scanning software for producing RAW master files. Having said that, it is tempting to make the switch considering the lack of transparency / clarification using SF Archive SW.

-Nick

[Archivist_Goals]

Hi Nick,
its not clearly said by Silverfast, but scanning in Raw file mode should override/cancel all single settings we are discussing here.
The discussed settings are made in the second step opening the raw files in Archive SW for post and master processing.
For this post-processing the settings are to your choice, but once made have to be fixed for consistency of the archival output. You also should work out your personal ColorProfile with the included tools.
Unfortunately a rawfile of Silverfast is not exactly a rawfile of Viewscan or Epsonscan, because there are settings in the hardware/software-background we dont know and cannot switch off. You have make your SW decision before your project runs. Viewscan rawfiles cannot be processed in Siverfast Archive SW.

regards Rainer

Rainer - after reading your comment about HDR RAW settings overriding all other settings, I went back to what SF support had to say. And just realized they implied the same thing. Sometimes the wording of their responses is not perfect-English and can be confusing.

SilverFast's German support team:

"Apart from this, the image written into the file is raw if and HDR mode had been selected for scanning.
Changing things in the CMS settings will change meta data set and profile info also saved into the file, but not the data itself."

So, it appears that you were correct and accurate. And my earlier comment this morning about how I wish it was 'documented somewhere' was staring me in the face for the past several days. Regardless, thank you again for your help. These posts can be useful for others in the future who have similar questions or concerns regarding this issue.

Screenshot attached.

Happy New Years,
Nick

[rawitz]

Hi Nick,
Silverfast Scan and (HDR Studio) Archival Software is a unit, so a solid solution for your long term project. Viewscan cannot (!) post-process their own raw-files, you need a second post-processing SW like Photoshop, Lightroom ao. Every "update" of one will probably ruin your balanced workflow. But a decision for Viewscan is also right. Good luck for your project !!!

happy new year Rainer

[Archivist_Goals]

Thanks Rainer - yes, my plan is to create the RAWs in SilverFast and post-process in Photoshop. I could just as well do post-processing in HDR Archival Software since I have a license for it. But I feel more comfortable working within Photoshop; applying the ICC profile there > saving.

My workflow will be:

Scan to RAW (TIFF) in SF at 48 bit HDR RAW > save > open in PS > attach ICC profile > rotate if needed > save as master archive file.

Open a copy of that master file in PS > adjust levels and/or curves > convert to profile for sRGB (or Wide Gamut RGB) with absolute Colormetric and Adobe ACE engine > Convert down to 24 bit > convert to JPEG at level 10 > DeScreen if necessary using Sattva Descreen PS plug-in > Save. This *copy* will be the aesthetic and edited version of the master archival file that will be for in-the-browser accessibility on Archive.org / Internet Archive

Thanks again!
Nick

[rawitz]

Its a 3-step-workflow and it should work. After descreening dont forget a careful final (USM) sharpening.

Good luck!
Rainer