How to do tray processing - both regular and stand?

[peter schrager]

Michael Smith did testing to prove that rotating the film during development is totally not important. he did the tests and all the negatives came out with even contrast. I'm surely wondering why someone who knows zip about tray developing is interested in semi stand or whatever. here's the best advice from someone who has developed thousands of sheets of film in a tray. buy yourself some foma 4x5 film and practice. I can do 15 sheets at a time in a tray.
and if you really want to make good negatives get yourself a dark green filter and a foot switch and learn to develop by inspection. you will be so far ahead of the curve and will actually make good negatives. KISS is the mantra here.

[Tin Can]

Shuffle is impossible for my damaged hands

I tried all kinds of ways, even baggie processing 4X5. 1 at a time

It works!

[Balazs Szabo]

Michael Smith did testing to prove that rotating the film during development is totally not important. he did the tests and all the negatives came out with even contrast. I'm surely wondering why someone who knows zip about tray developing is interested in semi stand or whatever. here's the best advice from someone who has developed thousands of sheets of film in a tray. buy yourself some foma 4x5 film and practice. I can do 15 sheets at a time in a tray.
and if you really want to make good negatives get yourself a dark green filter and a foot switch and learn to develop by inspection. you will be so far ahead of the curve and will actually make good negatives. KISS is the mantra here.

Peter,

Thank you for your comments.

I asked for tips on the shuffling method as clearly I'm doing almost everything wrong xD

Michael was clearly more talented and experienced than I am ( and will ever be ) and so I he got away without rotating. I am still very clumsy, so I guess rotating for me is essential even if I develop by inspection with ir goggles.

[Doremus Scudder]

While I haven't done tray processing in years, in the years that I did, my goal was to always handle the film as little as humanly possible, thus turning the tray rather than the stack of film. Every one does things slightly differently, it's most important that one finds the most consistent method, and not deviate once success has been achieved.
Cheers, SS

Steve,
FWIW, I turn every sheet 180° during the shuffle; not the whole stack. A bit of extra handling, but not that much since one is pulling a sheet from the bottom of the stack and replacing it on the top anyway; it's just one extra wrist flip and grab with the opposing hand. Anyway, I've always thought that the rotation was beneficial, but in light of what Peter posted, I'll have to reconsider.

Michael Smith did testing to prove that rotating the film during development is totally not important. he did the tests and all the negatives came out with even contrast. I'm surely wondering why someone who knows zip about tray developing is interested in semi stand or whatever. here's the best advice from someone who has developed thousands of sheets of film in a tray. buy yourself some foma 4x5 film and practice. I can do 15 sheets at a time in a tray.
and if you really want to make good negatives get yourself a dark green filter and a foot switch and learn to develop by inspection. you will be so far ahead of the curve and will actually make good negatives. KISS is the mantra here.

Peter,
I would be interested in finding out more about Michael Smith's test methods and results regarding rotating the film during development. Is it up on the Michael and Paula website? Or do you have some info?

TIA

Best, and Merry Christmas all!

Doremus

[Steve Sherman]

Steve,
FWIW, I turn every sheet 180° during the shuffle; not the whole stack. A bit of extra handling, but not that much since one is pulling a sheet from the bottom of the stack and replacing it on the top anyway; it's just one extra wrist flip and grab with the opposing hand. Anyway, I've always thought that the rotation was beneficial, but in light of what Peter posted, I'll have to reconsider.




Peter,
I would be interested in finding out more about Michael Smith's test methods and results regarding rotating the film during development. Is it up on the Michael and Paula website? Or do you have some info?

TIA

Best, and Merry Christmas all!

Doremus

I always thought of you as an above average and accomplished wet process photographer. Why would you for a second, consider changing your routine that has obviously produced successful results over the years simply because a big name stated an “Opinion”. As far as MAS, I’ve stood next to him demoing the DBI with a Green light. I've seen hundreds and held dozens of his prints in my hands. I have great respect for what MAS did for the large film community, however, his technique was less than precise. Truth told, the paper (AZO) that he printed on had almost an endless contrast range, which made his negative design and resulting prints significantly easier than those from a negative designed for Silver Gelatin.
In my own workflow, I have an Amber colored filter (OC) for DBI, Amber because the stain of PyroCat is Amber rather than the Green stain associated with Pryogallol Acid based developers such as the ABC formula that MAS used. A Green DBI light for PyroCat users is useless. Lastly, not everyone understands when using the DBI technique, one must view the base side, not the emulsion side. Even at that, the DBI technique to determine highlight density is not precise enough for my desired results and I would not recommend the such a complicated approach.

[Doremus Scudder]

Steve,

I'm not about to change a working system without good reason; I'm just too lazy Still, I'd be curious how Michael Smith determined that rotating film in trays when processing has no effect on evenness.

You provide interesting insights into Michael Smith's methods. Thanks for sharing your experiences.

As for DBI; I'm perfectly happy shuffling film in total darkness for 15 minutes. Time/temperature had worked well for me so far. I'm not going to change that either.

Best,

Doremus

[Tin Can]

You guys and it's ONLY guys have a point

YOUR WAY WORKS

for you

However we all need to find our own way as variables are endless

The easiest way to success is eliminate variables

and do it your way...