Yes, Current new price in New York....Originally Posted by B.S.Kumar
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/searc...rch=yes&sts=ma
Yes, Current new price in New York....
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/searc...rch=yes&sts=ma
Maybe so...but I'd rather buy from Kumar.
Maybe so, but this is a small forum. For those who don't know Kumar or haven't been on the Forum long enough to access the Buy/Sell it's price on the street in N America. Regardless, my point was... 'affordable' when you start talking 8x10..... is a relative term.Maybe so...but I'd rather buy from Kumar.
Some rather spurious arguments are being floated here. I'll paraphrase, which is why I'll use single quote marks.
'8x10 has always been heavy. Don't worry about weight.' The same could be said whenever someone suggests a larger format. Medium format is supposed to be heavy.....As if there's not a place for a Rollei TLR and a Fuji GX680. Each is better at some things. I used to use a Toho Shimo FX45x, a super light 4x5. It was terrific for backpacking, although it wasn't as easy to use as, say an Arca or a Sinar. So what? It allowed be to take a 4x5 on week long backpacking trips.
'8x10 is supposed to be expensive.' Really? How about a pinhole camera with paper negatives? How about a cheaper 8x10 camera, and cheap lens and xray film? Have you seen some of the fine work here with xray film? Or Foma? Sure, for some purposes, maybe yours, those might not be great choices, but other people could well have other goals. I love Toyo field cameras, but that doesn't mean that a Kodak 2D isn't a fine camera.
'Just buy an old camera!' Old cameras can come with a lot of issues. I have a bunch of them. Many of them would take more work than fixing my Intrepid.
Intrepid seems to be selling lots of cameras. At least they keep coming out with new products, which they'd likely not do if they weren't making a profit. They seem to be generating a lot of interest in LF photography. That's a good thing. Their cameras are very easy to modify. That too is good. If my camera falls down a cliff and breaks, I'll likely be able to fix it, and I won't feel as if a rare antique has been harmed. I have a bunch of those, too.
“You often feel tired, not because you've done too much, but because you've done too little of what sparks a light in you.”
― Alexander Den Heijer, Nothing You Don't Already Know
Peter, "Some rather spurious arguments are being floated here."
You are really saying that there are opinions that differ from yours & they are invalid.
"spu·ri·ous
not being what it purports to be; false or fake."
The OP asked if there were 8x10 choices other than Intrepid.
There have been other discussions about camera examples from both Intrepid & Gibellini that exhibited QC issues. Here's a very clearly written opinion about these kinds of issues in the current market:
" I seriously considered an intrepid camera but dropped the idea because of this problem: long than necessary wait times, quality control issues, etc. But I have a question, are these problems because of the crowdfunding mentality---get an idea, make the item, get people worked up over your new product and when you get the funding then, and only then, think about the business plan and logistics or just the way small businesses expect to run these days?
I run a business. You can be certain that I would not still be in business if I ran it this way. Before you say this is not their day job, neither is the business I run."
Nope, I wasn't saying that there are opinions that differ from my own, although of course that's true. But I can see that it'll be worthless to continue this discussion.
“You often feel tired, not because you've done too much, but because you've done too little of what sparks a light in you.”
― Alexander Den Heijer, Nothing You Don't Already Know
Agree with Peter. A lot of these statements are presented as facts.
For a couple years I got along with 8x10 using a cheap $300 Gundlach I bought on eBay and x-ray film that was cheaper than my "normal" 4x5 film. It was my cheap, fun format compared to 4x5. The "opinion" that 8x10 shooting is necessarily expensive and must be done with a heavy camera, is not a fact.
All big shops where overrun with people buying toilet paper when the corona crisis began.... this is not a way to run a business! They need a business plan and logistics! They should not be in this business!
I have a feeling that a lot of people just think that you can plan for anything and everything and that whatever that happens, it is the problem of the business not to have prepared for that case. This was a crowdfunding by a couple of people doing this on the side and expectinga bit of interest. Not expecting such a big interest as they received. So they got overwhelmed and their plans broke down. But apparently they do manage because they adapt and still survive and even expand.
When I see that concerns like Heinz/Kraft have supply chain troubles because of an epidemic I think that a couple of guys making cameras in a garage (oversimplification) can have issues when they are confronted with multiple demand of what they expected.
Expert in non-working solutions.
That's a pretty weak definition of spurious.
Here's a better one:
or how about:false and not what it appears to be, or (of reasons and judgments) based on something that has not been correctly understood and therefore false:
I would say both cover Peter's usage pretty accurately-- and apply well to some "opinions" that have been expressed in this thread.adj.
1. Lacking authenticity or validity in essence or origin; not genuine: spurious poems attributed to Shakespeare.
2. Not trustworthy; dubious or fallacious: spurious reasoning; a spurious justification.
3. Archaic Born to unwed parents.
As for crowdsourcing, most people who run campaigns on kickstart, indiegogo, etc., have no concept of the difficulty required to scale up from "look at this cool thing I made" to "let's make 100 of these cool things". They tend to be wildly optimistic about production times, delivery times, assembly times, etc.. And then of course, there's the unexpected thing that happens that nobody saw coming (like, say, an earthquake halfway around the world, a flood, a global pandemic).
But Intrepid, by and large, has survived it's trial by fire, and has produced successive iterations of the 4x5 that have improved the product dramatically. Similarly, from the 8x10 mk I to the mk II, there's a substantial improvement. The down side is, they're a small enough company that early adopters are also product testers-- but the company does appear to listen to those complaints, and tries to fix them.
Right now, as far as I know, if you want an inexpensive 8x10 with good customer service, Intrepid is the best bet. The cheapest would be to build your own.
Might be. IF (big if) you already have some experience with working the materials to construct the camera, have the needed tools already and have easy/cheap access to materials. Not to mention time. Not only are you designer, engineer, manufacturer but also alpha tester, beta tester and client.
Building cameras is a separate hobby from photography.
Expert in non-working solutions.
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