4x5 field camera with geared movements

[Bernice Loui]

Think you have a Sinar P2 with meter back ?

The Sinar meter back side lifers does not lift from the center of the GG, they lift one end of the GG. While this does aid in placing the film holder into the camera, it requires some juggling to get the film holder into the camera. The center lift on Sinar Norma and non meter back 5x7_13x18cm completely lifts up the GG allowing very easy placement of the film holder into the camera.



Totally pointless to use a Sinar meter back outdoors unless you're going drag along the Sinar meter system with the Sinar meter back camera.


Bernice

I don't like the Sinar metering back for field use. Anyway, don't the two smaller levers on the newer back work just fine for opening the back to insert a holder?

[Richard Wasserman]

You neglected the weight.

Yes, but it does have geared front rise. I really like mine and am happy to put up with the extra weight for the precision and robustness the Technika offers.

[Bernice Loui]

Design appears to be more than inspired by the Sinar Norma.. Even the rail clamp looks remarkably similar.

Difficulty with monorail cameras, they are not for all. As with any VC, it is all a set of trade-offs with no single ideal VC for all needs.


Bernice

I've owned and used two kinds of 4x5 field cameras and two kinds of rail cameras. I don't do studio work, but I do a lot of "field studio" shooting (up close, tight), so movements and flexibility mattered to me.

Lately my favourite is an old rail camera, the Toyo D45M. I lusted after the Toyo VX125 that Oren mentions, but it's really expensive! Some forum members put me onto a sleeper in the Toyo lineup, the old D45M. These were designed for professionals, but in an era where things weren't too complicated yet -- so no yaw free movements and much less bulky than later Toyo rail cameras (except the VX125). You get geared rise/fall, geared shift, and geared focus on the rail. Swing and tilt are by finger pressure, and both are very smooth and intuitive. I actually prefer swing and tilt this way now that I've used the camera for a while; the movements are very precise and easy. Everything is adjustable in case of misalignment. The basic standards + short rail + lens board adapter + rotating film back come in at around 7.5 lbs. My Wista 45VX is only one pound lighter. On the short rail, the camera folds down to a relatively small package that easily fits into my small pack. In the picture where it's in the pack, there's no lens on the board; normally I carry it with whatever lens was on it the last time I used it. Also not shown is the compendium shade that clips onto the front.

I tend to favour longer lenses over wider lenses, and I like working up close, so I needed lots of extension. The bellows on my D45M are new and lighter and thinner than OEM, so they compress down very nicely. I can use a 90mm lens with the flat lens boards and standard bellows (but almost no movements). If I throw on the 40mm recessed lens board, the standard bellows gives me lots of movements with the 90mm. And if I throw on the bag bellows, there's more movement with the 90mm than I'll likely use. I had the bellows maker put in a few extra folds, so with the two extension rails I can rack out to around 500mm and still have movements. I don't need that much extension because my longest lens is a 300mm, but it's nice to have the option.

Because it's so simple, the camera sets up extremely quickly. I leave the rail clamp attached to my tripod, so setting up simply involves taking the camera out of the pack, putting it on the clamp, and (depending on lens) adding an extension rail.

[rdeloe]

Rob, that Toyo looks like a great camera.

I really enjoy using it. I appreciate good design, and I'm a fan of simplicity -- in the sense of only making things as complicated as they need to be. I think the Toyo engineers struck a very nice balance. Solid, reliable, flexible, fixable.

[Peter De Smidt]

Think you have a Sinar P2 with meter back ?

The Sinar meter back side lifers does not lift from the center of the GG, they lift one end of the GG. While this does aid in placing the film holder into the camera, it requires some juggling to get the film holder into the camera. The center lift on Sinar Norma and non meter back 5x7_13x18cm completely lifts up the GG allowing very easy placement of the film holder into the camera.

Inserting a film holder into a Sinar with the bottom levers is no problem at all.

[Pere Casals]

You neglected the weight.

Jim, a lightweight 45 Tachihara is 1600gr while the Linhof it is 2600g, but we always can remove the rangefinder/cam assembly to save some weight. Still the Linhof precission, rigidity and handling it also has to be considered, there is a trade-off.

Having a precission rangefinder it is also an strong point, we may save the dark cloth and the loupe, and in some special conditions we even may save the tripod than can be sustituted by a very light monopod.

Perhaps for 4x5 the camera ultimate lightweight is not as important as how the camera is, for 8x10 it's different !!!

[Bob Salomon]

Jim, a lightweight 45 Tachihara is 1600gr while the Linhof it is 2600g, but we always can remove the rangefinder/cam assembly to save some weight. Still the Linhof precission, rigidity and handling it also has to be considered, there is a trade-off.

Having a precission rangefinder it is also an strong point, we may save the dark cloth and the loupe, and in some special conditions we even may save the tripod than can be sustituted by a very light monopod.

Perhaps for 4x5 the camera ultimate lightweight is not as important as how the camera is, for 8x10 it's different !!!

How much weight do you think it would save?
Are you talking about just removing the RF housing or completely gutting the focusing mechanism.

[Doremus Scudder]

I gladly sacrifice geared movements for light weight. I carry my camera for a lot more time than I actually photograph with it. A bit more time fiddling with the movements is a more-than-acceptable trade-off IM-HO.

I make "cityscapes" often with a wooden field camera and bag bellows. I either walk or bicycle around the city, with the camera kit in a wheeled backpack and tripod in my hand (or strapped onto the bike rack). My current favorite city camera, the Wista SW (basically a DX with interchangeable bellows) weighs 1.5 kg, just over three pounds. There's no way I would double that just to get a geared movement or two.

Same with my field kit: Wista DX that is even a bit lighter. I own an Arca Swiss and a Zone VI (late model) wooden folder. Neither of them get much use in the field due to their weight, bulk and lack of portability.

My advice would be to spend a bit of time getting better at fiddling with the non-geared camera movements. I apply rise, tilts and swings in the field often, especially in the city when I'm shooting architecture, and don't have an issue with time at all...

Here's my SW in action: Front rise at max, bed pointed up and standards tilted vertical to get extra rise to get verticals parallel plus swings and shifts applied to get horizontal lines parallel in the image. Even this extreme use of movements was easily done without geared movements. (My trusty Wide-Field Ektar 135mm is in action here too, more than enough coverage even for this.)




Best,

Doremus

[Pere Casals]

How much weight do you think it would save?
Are you talking about just removing the RF housing or completely gutting the focusing mechanism.

All out, if one never uses the RF, if one uses many lenses then the rf has less sense...

If one uses mostly a single lens and he does not hike, then rf is fantastic...

[Bob Salomon]

All out, if one never uses the RF, if one uses many lenses then the rf has less sense...

If one uses mostly a single lens and he does not hike, then rf is fantastic...

If you tear the RF out you seriously reduce the camera’s value!

The RF can be cam coupled for every focal length from 72mm to 360mm except for Imagons.
You can easily have infinity stops for every lens on the camera bed at the same time and the focus stage holds 3 focus scales and you can have lots of focus stages as they just simply slide in and out.
So the RF is useable with each focal length, in or out of the studio.

But the question I asked you was how much weight would be saved?