Why 55mm f/4.5 Apo-Grandagon *and* 55mm f/4.5 Grandagon-N?

[Steve Goldstein]

These two lenses seem very similar to my unpracticed-with-wide-angles eyes. The Grandagon-N image circle is 7mm larger and its flange focal length is a 2.4mm longer. It also weighs less and takes smaller filters than the Apo-Grandagon. Any idea why Rodenstock would produce two such similar lenses? Was it a case of market segmentation and positioning like with the Apo-Sironar-N and -S?

[Dan Fromm]

55 mm Grandagon-N? Don't you mean 65 mm?

[Bob Salomon]

Same lens, Rodenstock changed the diameter to 67mm shortly after the initial production. Both are Apo Grandagon. There was an older 58mm Grandagon but no 55mm Grandagon N.

[Steve Goldstein]

55 mm Grandagon-N? Don't you mean 65 mm?

I saw this quoted on another web site, with similar but not identical specs to the Apo-Grandagon 55mm. My admittedly limited collection of Rodenstock literature agrees with what Bob said. But since it was out there somewhere I thought I'd ask, I apparently have too much time on my hands

[schafphoto]

I'm very happy with my APO Grandson 55mm f4.5. Covers 4x5 with 5-7mm of shift ability, but when you need wide, it's wide. I keep getting the camera rail in the bottom of the vertical frame because I use it so seldomly, and I forget that I need to push the front and rear standards out to the front.
-Schaf

[Bernice Loui]

Notable difference between the APO Grandagon -vs- Grandagon N, MC and ... The APO Grandagon series is published to be optimized at f8-f11, While the Grandagon N, MC and ... is noted to be optimized at f22. This appears to be the published difference between the two series of Grandagon.

Regardless, the 55mm APO Grandagon is a GOOD lens, use it on 6x9 as a wide angle.


Bernice

[Bob Salomon]

Notable difference between the APO Grandagon -vs- Grandagon N, MC and ... The APO Grandagon series is published to be optimized at f8-f11, While the Grandagon N, MC and ... is noted to be optimized at f22. This appears to be the published difference between the two series of Grandagon.

Regardless, the 55mm APO Grandagon is a GOOD lens, use it on 6x9 as a wide angle.


Bernice

The difference is quite major, the Apo Grandagon are only made in 35, 45 and 55mm. The Grandagon N and the older Grandagon were made in 65 mm up except for a very old Grandagon 58mm.

[Bernice Loui]

Turns out the APO Grandagon is one of the very few production wide angles of this design to be optimized for larger apertures (f8-f11). This sets them apart from Grandagon N, Fujinon SW and SWD, Super Angulon, Nikkor SW and the rest.

Alterative would be the Zeiss Biogon and the Schneider 53mm f4 Super Angulon that was intended to be an alternative to the 53mm Biogon.


Bernice

The difference is quite major, the Apo Grandagon are only made in 35, 45 and 55mm. The Grandagon N and the older Grandagon were made in 65 mm up except for a very old Grandagon 58mm.

[Dan Fromm]

Bernice, f/4.5 Biogons cover 90 mm. The 38 covers 6x6 per Zeiss, 84 mm with good sharpness per me. The very scarce 45 covers 6x7. And the 53 covers 2x3, as does the 53/4.5 SA.

The roughly equivalent SA XLs have less coverage than Apo Grandagons. If you need what an Apo Grandy does, there are no substitutes.

[Bernice Loui]

Indeed, Trade offs are a given.

Biogons made for aerial recon were intended to be used at full aperture (Mil versions had no adjustable iris) fixed on a camera. Some decades ago there were a number of these on the US military surplus market made by Pacific Optical, Viewlex, Goerz, Zeiss. The Zeiss ones became sought after by the market due to brand identity. They were all made to a Mil spec.

The Biogon_ish wide angles for LF are designed to a different set of requirements and produce a different result. They have a larger image circle than the Biogon, intended to be used at smaller apertures, less weight, less bulk, in shutter and etc...

Not one of those who obsess over image circle as the image circle needed is simply matched to the lens required to get the image done. It does appear there is an obsession over image circle in recent years among LF folks. Wonder if this is due to the increased interest in 8x10 and larger sheet film for alternative process prints.



Bernice

Bernice, f/4.5 Biogons cover 90 mm. The 38 covers 6x6 per Zeiss, 84 mm with good sharpness per me. The very scarce 45 covers 6x7. And the 53 covers 2x3, as does the 53/4.5 SA.

The roughly equivalent SA XLs have less coverage than Apo Grandagons. If you need what an Apo Grandy does, there are no substitutes.