Kerry, I'm glad you're open-minded enough not to totally write the company off because they may have "copied" a camera or two. As someone noted earlier (it might have been you) the HZX45-IIA is a proprietary design, and a cheaply produced one at that.
If indeed this camera is a rip-off of Toho and no dealer will touch it, why is Robert White so eager to sell it? I would think a dealer of their reputation would not want to be involved in promoting intellectual property theft.
Kerry, you're probably correct - this is most likely a re-badged M2? I also agree with the quality issues of some of Shen Hao's products. Having said that these issues are with the 5x4 field camera - I have had no problems/issues with their roll-film holders. If Badger were "duped" by SH then it is likely that Robert White has suffered similarly?
If indeed this camera is a rip-off of Toho and no dealer will touch it, why is Robert White so eager to sell it? I would think a dealer of their reputation would not want to be involved in promoting intellectual property theft.
Dean,
Remember the chronology of the events. My comment about no other dealer touching this camera with a 10 foot pole was based on the negative responses in this thread. The folks at Robert White didn't have the benefit of that feedback when they decided to sell this camera. People make mistakes, and like you, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and a chance to correct their error. I'm hopeful that the folks at Robert White will eventually come around and do the right thing. Based on my past experience, I think they will (they're good folks).
Kerry
Dean
"If it turns out that this camera is in fact a Shen-Hao, is in fact a blatant detail-for-detail copy of the Toho monorail and manufactured without the consent or license of Toho (or anyone else), I'll be the first to denounce Shen-Hao. But until we know for a fact that Shen-Hao is trying to sidestep the R&D process and just stealing other designs, we should give them the benefit of the doubt."
"Kerry, I'm glad you're open-minded enough not to totally write the company off because they may have "copied" a camera or two."
???? You been drinkin'??
"???? You been drinkin'??"
No. But it has been a long day.
You see - everyone needs a darkroom with a big "film fridge"....
Or, to put it rather bluntly, I hope you won't mind if I take your entire library of wonderful images and start marketing them at a very low price and keeping the proceeds, Tuan. Look at the bright side - the fact that you're not making any money from them any more just means that you'll have to keep innovating so as to present a moving target.
Well, since you don't have my transparencies, no I don't mind if you travel to the 58 national parks, backpack
for a week in trail-less terrain above the Arctic circle, or down and up from the rim to the River in the Grand Canyon in hot weather, and take exactly the same images that I did and then try to market them for cheaper than I do. Indeed in the while, I'm moving on to a new and ambitious project of a more international nature, and that's OK if I am pushed a bit :-)
More seriously, I am not condoning rip-off of ideas or designs. All I am saying is that I am not so sure it always has an adverse effect on innovation (I am sure in some cases it does) esp. in a context when things move at a fast pace. Even copied by a company that would save on R&D, the innovator still has the advantage of being first to market. During the period before it is copied, it can make more than enough to recoup its R&D and make profits. By the time competitors copy it, it can move to the next big thing. If it cannot, it was just a one-time innovator, and might indeed disappear. This happens all the time in the computer industry. Apple doesn't have the means to compete in price, it's designs are innovative and invariably copied, yet it remains an innovative company.
Many seem to find that aggravating that the copycat company has duplicated the design to the point where
all the parts are even interchangeable between the original design and the copy. I'd say that since they are going
to rip-off a design anyways (which, I repeat, I find unethical) at least by making an exact copy they are not producing incompatibilities. For instance, since I use both systems, I hate it that on Windows cut/paste/copy is activated by Control-X/C/V, while it was, and still is, Alt-X/C/V on the Mac.
As an aside, I'm just curious as to why the title of my original thread has been changed with the addition of (New Shen Hao Monorail) "a Toho rip-off?" This suggests that I started the thread as a confrontational one as it is well known that I am NOT Shen Hao's biggest fan! I was just making participants in this forum aware of a new camera.
QT
I think your example of someone having to go and retake every shot you have is not an applicable comparison - how about I buy one copy of each of your images and then copy them and sell them on as my own for much less than you charge? Still feel that would be OK?
In this digital world it is quite easy to rip off an image and mass produce that image under a different name. To imagine otherwise is plain ignorant.
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