Using Surgical Gloves with Amidol and Pyro

[Alan Babbitt]

"Nitrile is *much* better than latex for chemical resistance..."

I'd like to clarify that. Nitrile is somewhat better than Latex for resisting some chemicals, while Latex is better with other chemicals, including Sulfuric Acid, MEK and Acetone. Reference

For typical darkroom chemistry, either type of glove should be OK. Even though I don't have any sensitivity to darkroom chemicals, I always wear gloves when I have to touch chemicals, such as when tray developing or toning. I tend to favor the Nitrile Gloves, but it may be because the Nitrile gloves I have are 8 mils thick and the latex gloves I have are 4 mils thick. Either way, I definitely recommend the thicker glove as it provides far superior tear and puncture resistance as well as increased chemical resistance with an insignificant loss of tactile sensation.

You can get either type of gloves by the box at McMaster-Carr or Lab Safety Supply.

[Jim_3565]

I buy them at Loewe's. They sell them in packages of 15 for about $3.00.

[Antti Aalto]

Just a tip about testing gloves. Instead of dip testing, pour the chemical in the glove and see how long it takes for the stuff to start coming through. That minus some for safety is the time you've got to take the glove off after exposure. The disposable gloves you get are made to protect you from spills, not to allow you to work with your hands immersed in the liquids.
Not to sound patronising, but a lot of people, once they've got the gloves on, they tend to forget where they should and shouldn't touch with developer on their fingers. If you need to be sure, don't contaminate those taps and tweezers you're going to be using without gloves as well.

[Jorge Gasteazoro]

the issues are the fit around your face (does it leak air around there?) and the type of cartridges.

This is good advice, specially on the fit. You should not have a beard, stubble or long sideburns. Also you have to keep in mind that cartridges do no last indefinitly, they have a shelf life once they have been opened.

An organic gases/acid vapors combination cartridge is more than enough protection for chemicals in the darkroom, but I cannot stress enough that the cartridges have to be replaced at least every 24 hours or after 8 hours of continuous use. As you can see this can become very expensive.
Another thing you have to consider is the load on your heart from using the respirator. I worked for 10 years in the haz waste/remediation field and every year we had a pulmonary capacity/ heart load test. It is not easy to breathe with these respirators and if you have a heart condition this might do you more harm than good.

Finally if you do a search you will see we have had lenghty discussion on this topic in this forum as well as APUG. As a chemist who worked in the haz waste field I can tell you that IMO I think you are over reacting a little. The mayor exposure to pyro occurs when you are mixing it from scratch, once it is mixed the developer is in such small concentrations in working dilutions that for all practical purposes it is negligible. If you are concerned with the mixing, just buy it in solution and avoid all the hassles.

Good luck.

[Bill_1856]

I don't believe there's any convincing evidence that either of these chemicals is poisonous if exposed through skin (either in terms of morbidity or mortality). Although caution certainly seems prudent, but making a fetish out of it is silly. The Amidol will turn your fingernails brown, though.

[Aaron van de Sande]

Amidol is used (particularily in asia) to dye hair. Pyrogallol is in oak leaves. Gloves and a little common sense are more than enough precaution.

[Wayne]

Amidol is used (particularily in asia) to dye hair. Pyrogallol is in oak leaves.

Well those are two rather pointless factoids.



Gloves and a little common sense are more than enough precaution.

I agree that a mask is overkill. Personally if I was that worried about using the chemicals I wouldnt use them at all. And I've somehow managed to get by without using either, so far.

[Gregory Gomez]

I think everyone's sensitivity to darkroom chemicals is going to vary. For some, exposure to Amidol and Pyro fumes will be negligible. For others, it might be of greater concern and discomfort. Only personal experience can give us a true indication of our level of sensitivity.

My concern is about long-term exposure and its effects on the body, principally cancer and the possibility of kidney failure. Occasional and incidental exposure is less of a problem than repeated and prolonged exposure. For me, I feel more comfortable erring on the side of considerable caution. At 53 some of my friends have already died of cancer, albeit breast cancer. But in one of these cases, the woman led a reasonably health lifestyle.

As for wearing a respirator, I already do that with my work with pastel chalk. I scrape the pastel colors on matte board and use a brush to build up color and density in creating abstractions. The chalk dust literally gets everywhere, and the respirator blocks these particles quite effectively. I also wear latex gloves to eliminate any absorption of the material through the skin. I feel very comfortable wearing these protective devices for up to five hours at a time. Yes, it's slightly uncomfortable, but it doesn't seem to bother me that much.

The full-face respirator I am considering looks better made and more comfortable to wear than what I am currently using for pastels and other work. It also appears to offer much better protection because I will not be breathing the air in the darkroom. The respirator face mask has a very long and flexible hose that attaches to an outlet in the wall allowing me to breathe outside air. I know this sounds very extreme, but when it comes to chemicals and my working with these substances for many hours at a time, caution, I feel, is indicated in my case. Having said that, artists like Edward and Brett Weston used no protection at all, and in Brett's case, he reached his early eighties before passing away.

Respirators that use replaceable cartridges and require the user to breathe the air contaminated by chemicals offer reasonably good protection. But the protection offered depends upon the length of exposure and the concentration of the chemicals in the air. However, in a well designed darkroom with very good ventilation, let's assume a complete air exchange every three minutes, the concentration of chemicals in the air will indeed be very low as opposed to a closed room with no provision for air exchange at all. And if the darkroom worker is using a JOBO processor, the exposure drops even further.

When I did darkroom work in the past, the room I used was well air conditioned and had excellent air circulation. It was not only easy to keep darkroom chemicals at 68 degrees, but it was really unnecessary for me to wear any protection at all, except for latex gloves. Now, years later, I will be using more toxic materials -- Pyro and Amidol -- and develop my film and prints the way Edward Weston did; that is, I plan to tray develop one negative at a time, and perhaps develop it by inspection. Because I am not a prolific shooter, I am not too worried about a big backlog of negatives to develop, nor am I too concerned about the tediousness of developing one negative at a time. For me, the creation of a single image using these methods will give me the opportunity to come to know my subject matter well, both in the field and in the darkroom. In this way the process becomes more important to me than the final outcome.

Thanks to you all for your kind input.

Best regards,

Greg

[Herb Cunningham]

I use pyro in various incarnations with regular exam gloves, no powder that I get from a surgical type drug store.

They work fine and I do tray dev elopment, haven't had a leak yet.

[Ole Tjugen]

I have used both latex and nitrile gloves, but now I buy only latex - they give a better grip on the slippery little /&%¤/&'s when tray developing sheet film. They stand up to the chemicals at least as long as it takes to develop a batch of 5x7" film, and it's better than dipping my hands in the soup completely unprotected.