150mm Lenses-Fuji vs. Rodenstock

[ben_hutcherson]

I'm still in gear-buying mode for LF stuff, and one of the things I really want is a "modern" normal lens(at this point everything I have is pre-WWII or early postwar).

Looking at KEH, I've come across two tempting options-a Rodenstock APO-Sironar N, and a Fuji Fujinon W. The Rodenstock is in a Copal shutter, and the Fuji in a Seiko shutter. Both are f/5.6. These would be used on my Pacemaker Speed and a Burke and James wooden view camera for 4x5.

I have to admit that the lure of German glass is appealing to me. My only real experience with it is on my Rolleis in older Tessar-type lenses(I have one Tessar and a couple of Schneider Xenars). I've had pretty extensive experience with Japanese glass in both 35mm(Canon) and medium format(Bronica).

In any case, I know that there's a lot more than absolute resolution, and with a big negative/transparency one doesn't have to split hairs over the resolution like you necessarily do in 35mm. Heck, I've never really done that even in 35mm since I figure that most of my good Canon prime lenses can probably out-resolve my skills when I'm hand-holding.

All of that aside, I'm mostly a landscape and architecture guy, and color performance IS important to me. I shoot a lot of B&W but also shoot Velvia. I've been a bit underwhelmed by the color performance of my older lenses compared to what I'm use to seeing.

Some quick Google work seems to point to the Fuji as being the generally better lens, and I also can't get around it being 2/3 the price of the Rodenstock(even though I can swing buying either). I also know enough to know that there's sample-to-sample variation that can be even more pronounced on used lenses depending on how they've been handled.

So, I'd appreciate opinions as to which would be a better choice. I know I can also do what KEH reps have encouraged me to do in the past, and that's buy both and return the one I like the least, but then I hate to abuse that priviledge.

Also-one last complete LF newbie question-I'm assuming I'll need two different lens boards to use the lens on both cameras I've mentioned. Is that indeed the case?

[Dan Fromm]

[sarcasm]They are both very bad.[/sarcasm]

There were several versions of the 150/5.6 Fujinon-W, all poorly documented and explained. Here is a field guide to Fuji lenses: http://www.subclub.org/fujinon/index.htm

Strongly suggest that you shop eBay too. I think you'll find that Fujinons are less expensive that the equivalent R'stock and that prices on eBay are lower than KEH's. In my limited experience eBay sellers located in Japan have been very reliable.

Also-one last complete LF newbie question-I'm assuming I'll need two different lens boards to use the lens on both cameras I've mentioned. Is that indeed the case?

Hmm. You have both cameras. Why not ask them? On general principles, Pacemaker Graphic boards are compatible with no other cameras. If you're going to use the same lenses on both cameras, look into buying an adapter that will hold a board for one camera on a board for the other. This will be easier to live with than remounting lenses as needed and may save enough money on boards to pay for the adapter.

Edited to make sarcasm more visible.

[Peter Lewin]

Here is some information on Rodenstock lenses: http://www.prograf.ru/rodenstock/largeformat_en.html. The Apo-Sironar-S 150 is my "go to" lens, probably used 80% of the time. Per the documentation, the "N" version has a little less coverage. I don't see why it would be "very bad" but have no experience to go by. If there is not a significant quality difference, I would look at the relative image circles and weight. The former will give an indication of how much freedom you have to use tilts, swings, and displacements, the latter an idea of how "transportable" they are, since most of us prefer less bulk and weight where possible.

[Alan Gales]

Fujinons bring less money because they are Fujinons. I don't know why. It's just some perceived thing. Also the Fujinon is in a Seiko shutter which will bring less money than a Copal. Seiko shutters are fine. RZ67 lenses use Seiko shutters.

[ben_hutcherson]

Thanks guys for giving me some stuff to digest.

As for the Seiko shutter-I'm a watchmaker and I have the utmost respect for the quality of Seiko products. Even their low end mechanical watches are mechanically sound even if not particularly elegantly finished. My much beloved SQ-A system uses Seiko shutters also, albeit electronically timed ones(at all but 1/500).

I know Copal is something of the standard in LF, although I'm more familiar with Copal Squares as in my grandfather's Autoreflex TC and the Canon EF I've always lusted after.

[Ivan J. Eberle]

Some of the Fujinons may be single coated. All of the Rodenstock Sironar N's (also rebadged as Caltar IIN, Sinaron, and Linhof) use apocromatic glass and are multicoated. In the 150mm length the Sironar S has noticeably more image circle than the N version (not as big a difference in the 135mm length), but it's typically about twice as expensive, used.

[David Karp]

I have both a 150mm Sironar-N (same as APO-Sironar-N) and a 150mm Fujinon NW (outer lettering on the lens barrel). Both are fine lenses.

After checking out the KEH website, I saw multiple 150mm Rodenstock examples and one Fujinon. The Fujinon is listed in a Seiko, but the lens pictured is the NW version. I have never seen an NW in a Seiko shutter, although that may have happened. The NW Fujinons are labeled "W" on the barrel instead of "NW." (Just another LF mystery - Who knows why Fuji did this.) The W series is single coated. The NW series is EBC multicoated. The confusing factor is that KEH uses stock photos, so they might really be selling the single coated version in a Seiko. You should check before you buy.

My Fujinon NW is slightly larger than my Sironar-N. It also has a larger image circle. Not as large as the very expensive Rodenstock APO-Sironar-S, but larger than the APO-Sironar-N or Sironar-N. You can get the image circle for the Rodenstock here: http://www.largeformatphotography.in...s/LF4x5in.html. You can get information for all Fujinons here: http://www.subclub.org/fujinon/byseries.htm. You can see that the image circle for the Fujinon approaches that for the APO-Sironar-S.

I purchased my 150mm Fujinon NW many years ago from Midwest Photo Exchange, but I see them for sale on eBay from Japan regularly. Or, contact B.S. Kumar on this forum and ask him to keep an eye out for one. He is in Japan. I purchased my Sironar-N on eBay for less than $1 per mm! It was in an all black Copal shutter and in perfect condition. (I actually got it for the shutter, but that need disappeared magically, and I liked the lens enough to keep it, but not so much to make me dump the Fujinon.)

In my opinion, you can't go wrong with either one. If you need every mm of image circle, then you might want the Fujinon, if it is indeed the multicoated NW version.

As for color rendition, I shoot black and white, so others will have to help you there.

[ben_hutcherson]

After checking out the KEH website, I saw multiple 150mm Rodenstock examples and one Fujinon. The Fujinon is listed in a Seiko, but the lens pictured is the NW version. I have never seen an NW in a Seiko shutter, although that may have happened. The NW Fujinons are labeled "W" on the barrel instead of "NW." (Just another LF mystery - Who knows why Fuji did this.) The W series is single coated. The NW series is EBC multicoated. The confusing factor is that KEH uses stock photos, so they might really be selling the single coated version in a Seiko. You should check before you buy.

Thanks for that bit of information.

I've spent a lot with KEH over the years, and in the past they've pulled lenses from the warehouse for me and held them in their hand while I asked questions. I might call them tomorrow about that.

BTW, I know there are cheaper sources than KEH, but they've been good to me over the years and I like to give them my business.

[David Karp]

I should also have mentioned that many Fujinon lenses are great deals for very high quality lenses. You can put together a very nice set of lenses by purchasing Fujinons. Nobody will ask you why you used a Fujinon instead of a Rodenstock when they look at your photos!

Some Fujinons are unique and command higher prices. These include the Fujinon C series (300mm, 450mm, 600mm), and Fujinon A series (180mm, 240mm, 300mm, 360mm). These are prized due to their excellent quality and smaller size when compared to other lenses of similar focal length.

[Bob Salomon]

Some of the Fujinons may be single coated. All of the Rodenstock Sironar N's (also rebadged as Caltar IIN, Sinaron, and Linhof) use apocromatic glass and are multicoated. In the 150mm length the Sironar S has noticeably more image circle than the N version (not as big a difference in the 135mm length), but it's typically about twice as expensive, used.

Except for a lens sold by Linhof as the Portrait lens and the lens on the Linhof 220 series there are no Linhof relabeled Rodenstock lenses.
Perhaps you are thinking about Linhof tested lenses that carries both the Linhof logo as well as the Rodenstock logo and model name.
Or maybe you were thinking about Alpa, they sell relabeled Rodenstock lenses.
Not all Sironar N lenses were multicoated. Only those marked Sironar N MC were multicoated. Of course all were coated.