Where To Fly To...Mid-Late December??

[jp]

This looks like a fun trip. I've been itching for a west trip too.. Perhaps arrive in San Jose or SF, head down the coast a bit, then across to Death Valley, explore Nevada, Jim Galli's area, then up to Utah to the salt flats and return through SLC.

I'm fond of the "Vanishing Point" movie, but not in that much of a hurry.

[Drew Wiley]

Instead of Arizona, there is some utterly gorgeous low desert in Anza-Borrego State Park, a rather large area right on the southern border of San Diego County,
and photographically quite reminiscent of Death Valley, but with a true palm oasis, along with an inner irrigated area analogous to Furnace Creek. It's relatively
close to that Salton Sea area. By after these substantial storms of the past week, Tioga Pass is probably closed for good (the first major storm of Nov is the traditional formal closure); and the Kings Canyon road is also probably closed, though they keep the big trees area of Grant Grove open year round. The southern entrance into Yosemite can be wretchedly slow after a snowfall, due both to skier traffic up to Badger Pass and the long winding road in general. The El Portal route from Mariposa is nearly always open. Donner Pass connecting Reno to Sacto is rarely closed, but it does happen in Dec and Jan. But I still can't get a handle on trying to visit all these places in one trip. What ever happened to "quality time"? Your two key resources to current highways conditions are the respective National Park websites, along with the California Highway Patrol recorded road report.

[Drew Wiley]

jp - both SF and San Jose are wretched airports to fly into. Hectic. Oakland is far more convenient. Nevada can be very cold and isolated in Fall and Winter, with
significant distances between services, even gas stations. But that's much of its appeal. I've been snowed in as long as three days at a time there. What can be
fatal for someone not properly prepared can be downright fun if you have sufficient supplies, a good sleeping bag, a pair of snowshoes and good boots, and a
decent tripod with serious spike feet. The Nevada skies can be outright boring, or on the other hand, utterly magical under storm conditions. From the air it's an
incredible landscape. But unless you're particularly ambitious, it easier to just visit the margins of it within an hour or two of the eastern Sierra and Hwy 395,
with Mono Lk or Bridgeport as a connecting hub. Best done in summer of early fall, though Winter obviously has its special magic. If possible, use secondary
PAVED highways in Nevada. Some of them are gorgeous. Avoid the ugly trucker route of Freeway 80 unless you are just trying to cross the state as fast as possible between Utah and Calif. My old custom was to drive the freeways at night, since I didn't want to know what I was missing! - then spend my days on
the slower roads. But don't get stuck somewhere. It can happen easily in the West in the Winter. Death Valley is hospitable from Nov to maybe March, though
it has upper altitudes too, with snow rather than heat becoming the main logistical problem. Don't underestimate its sheer size either. Takes time to explore.

[appletree]

Depending on what your priority is (Yos + snow), you may want to align your trip/destinations so you are within a day or two to pounce on the opportunity. The way I worked it out (knowing that snow storm was "clearing" already), I ended up in a motel at Oakhurst....till they cleared the roads in the park. Ha, camping was out of the question (too stinkin cold). You can't count on Tioga Rd (Rte 120) being open....due to height and it could be shut at any moment> killing your access from E. Sierra....post October. Currently the pass is shut down "temporarily" (???). Anyway, NPS in general keep the roads to and in Yos accessible...as they are interested in revenue stream (to the valley). In any case, it's a worthy goal. However, it's incredibly difficult to predict when (or if) the snow will fall...considering that Calif received v. little snow (or moisture) in the recent years. Additionally, the storm could be rolling from SF to Yos, but v. often it can fizzle out too....before it gets there. Yeah, as if you want to deal with more unknowns.

You could explore Sequoia, Kings Canyon, DV, Joshua, etc. while keeping an eye on the weather in Yos. Anyway, keep it real and try to camp at lower elevations. Exactly month ago I camped at KC (6700ft) and woke up to 30.5F (28 deg earlier) and it's way colder by now. Ha, even my 25 degree sleeping bag couldn't keep me cozy enough (REI bag rating is faulty)....but that's a different subject.

Anyhoo, hope everything lines up as intended....and you can do some snow angels.

Les

Wow, Les, that is great information sir. Thanks so much. So perhaps I plan to spend the first 9 days or so across California (and the last half of trip, close enough to Yosemite to allow a visit should the snow/weather permit.

A few comments that may help advice from you and others:

1. After looking at photos of JT, DV, Sequoia, King's Canyon, etc. it is apparent to me I would much rather spend time in Sequoia and King's rather than desert life.
2. Although, if possible it would be nice to spend a day in each of the desert areas. Not sure how feasible this is? Are the arches and some of the other "must see" landscapes (devil's golf course, badwater, zabriskie, etc.) relatively easy to do? As in could one theoretically drive through JT or DV in a full day and stop, park, hike a little, etc. and see a decent amount. (Obviously this wouldn't do the park full justice)
3. See map below, but it seems like one cannot easily drive from DV to Sequoia or King's Canyon? Looks like I must go around the long way?
4. Let's say I spend 4-5 days across Sequoia and King's, how would I know if/when I should get up and go to Yosemite? Or the night before make sure I am headed that way? Based on the weather alone? Based on snowfall amount? How do I make such a decision.
5. While Yosemite is the "option" and a nice goal to have, are Sequoia and King's Canyon viable options? Considering mid-December, etc.?
6. My goal is not to have every detail planned out, but have a general idea and for the rest fly by the seat of my pants.
7. Sorry for silly questions, just not being a native to Cali, I want to make the most of my trip.

Ok, here is what I have to fill:

• Dec 15 - Fly into San Diego, visit Salton Sea and head to JT
• Dec 16 - Spend day (6AM - 3PM or so) at JT, drive toward DV
• Dec 17 - Spend day and night at DV
• Dec 18 - Leave mid-day for Sequoia and spend night there (or near)
• Dec 19 - Sequoia (Yosemite, as an option) (need to get friend to an airport [Fresno or Bakersfield I guess] this day or on the 20th)
• Dec 20 - Sequoia (Yosemite, as an option)
• Dec 21 - King's Valley (Yosemite, as an option)
• Dec 22 - King's Valley (Yosemite, as an option)
• Dec 23 - Get into Sacramento mid morning. Spend rest of day shooting friends/portrait work, etc.
• Dec 24 - Sacramento. Shooting friends/portrait work, fly out in the evening.

PS: Seems like the NPS website has lots of information (this in regards to winter time in Sequoia and King's Canyon)...

[appletree]

But I still can't get a handle on trying to visit all these places in one trip. What ever happened to "quality time"?

Drew, thanks a ton for your input and information on the road closures (as well as what parts of various parks may/may not be accessible. In regards to your opinions, they are noted. I would only add that quality time of one person is different from others. What works for some, may not work for other's. To each his/her own.

[Drew Wiley]

Just remember that Kings Canyon is 95% official wilderness, completely roadless, with major sections even devoid of trails. Unless you're an expert backcountry skier, it's a summer-only area, one in which I've personally taken many trips. Perhaps my very favorite of all Natl Parks. Even the relevant viewpoints towards
the Park are closed in winter. Kings and Sequoia are jointly administered as SEKI. The main loop road in Sequoia might between the Ash Mtn and Grant Grove entrances might or might not remain open. The quickie road straight up to Grant Grove is nearly always open, though chains might be required. But most of Sequoia is itself back country. What is so wonderful about SEKI is how wonderfully quiet it is compared to Yosemite. Event the rangers are friendly, while in Yosemite they tend to be all stressed out. Of course, most of Yosemite itself is backcountry too. I recently spend two weeks there, without even encountering
anyone else for an entire week. There are a number of spectacular glacial valleys in the Sierra, but Yosemite Valley differs in being so accessible, relatively low altitude, and in being inhabited by humans for millennia. Due to the low altitude, those Ansel-esque postcardly snows take quite a bit of luck in terms of timing,
and when they do happen you can get trapped in the Valley for a few days - or at least claim to be trapped, so you have an excuse not to get back to work in
time!

[appletree]

Just remember that Kings Canyon is 95% official wilderness, completely roadless, with major sections even devoid of trails. Unless you're an expert backcountry skier, it's a summer-only area, one in which I've personally taken many trips. Perhaps my very favorite of all Natl Parks. Even the relevant viewpoints towards
the Park are closed in winter. Kings and Sequoia are jointly administered as SEKI. The main loop road in Sequoia might between the Ash Mtn and Grant Grove entrances might or might not remain open. The quickie road straight up to Grant Grove is nearly always open, though chains might be required. But most of Sequoia is itself back country. What is so wonderful about SEKI is how wonderfully quiet it is compared to Yosemite. Event the rangers are friendly, while in Yosemite they tend to be all stressed out. Of course, most of Yosemite itself is backcountry too. I recently spend two weeks there, without even encountering
anyone else for an entire week. There are a number of spectacular glacial valleys in the Sierra, but Yosemite Valley differs in being so accessible, relatively low altitude, and in being inhabited by humans for millennia. Due to the low altitude, those Ansel-esque postcardly snows take quite a bit of luck in terms of timing,
and when they do happen you can get trapped in the Valley for a few days - or at least claim to be trapped, so you have an excuse not to get back to work in
time!

Thanks Drew. Very helpful information. And no, I am not an avid backcountry skier. Although, I am very verse to backpacking in general. That said, I won't take any chances that are too risky. Last year when I spent over a week in Oregon, I tried going with a fellow photographer (local to Portland) to Mt. Hood and we had to eventually turn around. The road was just too bad, and we had chains.
Seems like beggars can't be choosers. I will have to play much of the latter half of my trip by ear and based solely on what is/isn't open and/or accessible.

[Drew Wiley]

Oh, a couple very important things I forgot. California's Central Valley gets tule fog in winter which can be deadly due to horrible road visibility. You have to time your driving so that you avoid it. It sets in mid-evening to mid-morning, and can be particularly bad in the lower river drainages. And those long truck routes going across the Mohave toward Bakerfield have their own risk of pileups due to sand storms, snow or ice, etc. So your projected times from Point A to Point B
could drastically change any number of places. Once in awhile there are major highway washout in the desert too, flashflooding. The key thing is to just be flexible. There will be plenty to see and do, regardless, if you are reasonably supplied. Plenty of gas and a good sleeping bag are a must. Rather than exiting DV from the south (if that road is even open yet) towards Ridgecrest, a far more scenic route would head west toward Lone Pine, and then turn south from there, unless you are too tempted to explore Hwy 395 to the north, alongside the Sierra crest. It can be hard to resist.

[appletree]

Oh, a couple very important things I forgot. California's Central Valley gets tule fog in winter which can be deadly due to horrible road visibility. You have to time your driving so that you avoid it. It sets in mid-evening to mid-morning, and can be particularly bad in the lower river drainages. And those long truck routes going across the Mohave toward Bakerfield have their own risk of pileups due to sand storms, snow or ice, etc. So your projected times from Point A to Point B
could drastically change any number of places. Once in awhile there are major highway washout in the desert too, flashflooding. The key thing is to just be flexible. There will be plenty to see and do, regardless, if you are reasonably supplied. Plenty of gas and a good sleeping bag are a must. Rather than exiting DV from the south (if that road is even open yet) towards Ridgecrest, a far more scenic route would head west toward Lone Pine, and then turn south from there, unless you are too tempted to explore Hwy 395 to the north, alongside the Sierra crest. It can be hard to resist.

Very helpful advice. Thanks. Yes, I plan to buy a gas tank for the rental car when we get into San Diego. I have good camping gear, wool socks, blankets, little stove, etc. We will do our best to be prepared.
Once again, I don't think I will venture super far out in areas a) I have never been, b) in winter time with poor conditions, and c) especially once I am traveling alone for the last few days.

[Drew Wiley]

Nearly every single Winter or Fall road trip I've taken like this (and there have been many of them) have involved getting stuck or delayed somewhere in route,
or some kind of unexpected long detour. But I was raised by parents who considered the best way to get from Point A to B as being the most convoluted winding
combination of backroads imaginable, so guess I inherited that proclivity myself, with a preference for the "scenic route". But the huge interstates can be at times worse if a big semi truck & trailer tips over, of if there are hundreds of marginally awake gamblers or skiers returning to LA after a wild weekend. Stuff happens. If snow is low, there is an alternate way of getting from Lone Pine to Bakerfield via Isabella Lake and the lower Kern River Canyon, which avoid the trucker traffic and is scenic, and generally not any slower.