Dear god, pie holes are everywhere....sigh

**Ari** · 22-Sep-2016, 16:03

Originally Posted by cowanw

The burial chamber of King Cheops has graffiti from British tourists 150 years ago.
Independence Rock in Wyoming has graffiti from 1850.
I bet the Parthenon has Roman graffiti.
French troops shot up the Sphinx.
Multinational troops destroyed the Summer Palace in Beijing
It would be nice if people were respectful; but making it the internet shame of the week isn't much better.

Heh, heh...made me think of this:

**cowanw** · 22-Sep-2016, 16:15

ay too brutay!

**Drew Wiley** · 22-Sep-2016, 16:26

Plenty of satire, cartoons lampooning the masters, and personal graffiti have been found in crawl spaces and hidden spots of monuments, tombs, pyramids, medieval cathedrals - you name it. Do something of that nature in sight of authorities or anywhere conspicuously visible, and it wasn't likely to end well. Same goes for iconic animal species. You do know one of the formal rules that has kept the giant panda from extinction in China, don't you? Hint - it ain't a fine if you
kill one, or even a prison term.

**Two23** · 22-Sep-2016, 16:42

Originally Posted by Drew Wiley

Vandalism simply spoils that sense of solitude entirely. You're no longer "discovering" something new. It's not the same kind of break from day to day insanity.

I see it as a "culture of selfishness," and a total lack of perspective. When I'm off by myself in a desolate area, it makes me feel both peace and a kind of "smallness." I intuitively understand my place in the universe. I'm active on several other general topic photo message boards, and when a visitor to the U.S. wants suggestions of where to go, one of my top five picks are the giant trees in Sequoia NP and Yosemite NP. I tell them to just go and sit under them for at least an hour. Don't take any photos, leave your phone in your car. Just sit and consider everything that's happened in the world since those trees emerged from the earth. Unfortunately, not everyone seems to stop and think about where they are and the significance. For the past several years I've been interested in learning all I can about F.J. Haynes, the Fargo ND photographer most famous for Yellowstone photography. (The Ansel Adams of Yellowstone.) That got me reading about early park history. The things visitors did back then were just as appalling if not more so! Look at Liberty Cap today vs. photos Haynes took in the late 1870s. Or the three (now two) petrified trees there. On and on. The early stereoviews I have from YNP clearly show visitors weren't considering that over a hundred years later people would still be coming to see the park, just as they did. Things are much better now than they once were. I think technology (remote cameras etc. at vulnerable spots) can improve things even more. As for trash, I generally pick it up and either carry it off or bury it when I find it. I figure that in a weird sort of way, I'm a kind of "balancer."

Kent in SD

**Jmarmck** · 22-Sep-2016, 17:06

As a child up until I was 18 I never really spent any time in true solitude. Being the last of 8 kids means there is little alone time. In June of 1975 fresh out of high school I spent three weeks backpacking in the South San Juan Mountains of Colorado with the Outward Bound group. Part of the course was three days spent in solitude. I was somewhere south of Knife Edge or Sunrise Peak (which I did climb) on a mountain side with a poncho, water, sleeping bag, and my thoughts. The only company I had was a marmot that would come out and sunbath in the afternoon sun. It was an interesting experience. It is strange what goes through your head when in isolation like that.

Since that experience I have had other self imposed isolation. It helps get things upstairs in order.

jp · 22-Sep-2016, 18:06

We've got an outward bound training organization in my area and I've heard many similar stories from the participants.

On this side of the country, people stack up rocks at the beach or hllltop or anywhere suitable rocks are found. Cairns which are not all natural traditional trail makers. Casual visitors think it's quaint or creative. I think it's helpless type-A people foolishly trying to impose human order where there wisely isn't. No dishes or laundry or papers to organize, so they organize rocks. Rednecks wouldn't bother. I've been known to undo some of these stacks if nobody is looking.

**Jeff Conrad** · 22-Sep-2016, 19:08

As long as they aren’t using models, sets, or props ...

**LabRat** · 22-Sep-2016, 19:16

Human nature can be strange/sad... People tend to try to shape the environment to their perceived notions, as humans don't like chaos (but it's a more complex natural order of things)... So is it stacking rocks to create a disorder in nature, or building skyscrapers that defy even human logic??? Or tagging stuff to put a mark on something that will seem to outlast us (narcissism) ??? But hey, we do it as photographers trying to find order to compose photographs, but at least respect the natural order and leave it as nature intended it to be...

Usually a bad idea to mix testosterone/alcohol/narcissism/mindsets/notions and let these people out of captivity, and see what happens (and what they are "entitled" to do)...
I don't know if there is a solution... :-(

Steve K

**Bruce Watson** · 23-Sep-2016, 06:48

Originally Posted by Randy Moe

Almost kidding!

The prevailing attitude. Sigh...

Well, at least we had people like Charlton Watkins, William Henry Jackson, Thomas Moran (painter), up through Ansel Adams and Eliot Porter, and on up to the present day. There will be a good number of photographs and paintings to show future generations what they missed -- what the National Parks used to be like.