FUTURE OF 120 FILM

[mrthieme]

Hello, first post here. Buying a dslr was the act that really sparked my interest in photography, it is motivating me to finally learn wet darkroom work, and I can't be the only one. Being a hobbyist, I am constantly looking to figure out the best image quality for my limited budget. I use a Canon 30d and 13" Epson printer, the next step up in print size and going to a full frame body will be thousands of dollars, and is just not feasible. For far less money I could assemble a simple darkroom and basic medium or large format system, and learn a few things in the process. The moral here was that digital has led me to film, maybe if it happens enough the future of film will stretch out even further into this century.

[Pavel+]

I wonder in five years .... if the price of a roll of 120 is at $14 dollars a roll (as an extreme example) how many would hold out.
I like film and have gone back to it after a digital absence of more than six years ... but I do have to say that I think the future is worrysome. The economics of scale are just starting to kick in and it could be a bad spiral of less user base leading to less selection and higher prices leading back to less users etc ... round and round.

In being a fan of film I kind of tended to minimize the possibilities that this is likely to happen but the recent going out of business of polaroid kind of drove the times home to me. We are completely dependent on film being a profitable venture - in the face of much evidence with signs of the opposite being true.

Lets remember that ten years ago - none of what has happened to the film market could even have been imagined, that it should happen in such a short time. Ten years from now? I wonder. I hope for good things ... but like ox carts ... film may become a small marginal thing. Despite how much some folks love ox carts and film both.

[bglick]

> As long as there is a market for film, they will make it.

my response refers mostly to color film, not B&W


There was a time in history where statements like this were somewhat true. However, with the two big film makers being multi-billion dollar, public corporations, I don't feel comfortable with this adage. If film sales represented a big % of total sales, I would still feel more comfortable with this statement, but that is not the case. Photo film sales probably represent <5% of total sales from the big 2. That is a bad sign IMO. I think cinema film may be our Saviour, but that is migrating to digital also.


I think under a worst case scenario, we will loose the big 2, but will still have film choices from small Chinese companies, such as Lucky film. We can only hope Kodak does not close out their film line, but instead, turns it over to Lucky film, which Kodak has a 25% interest in. We can only hope Fuji does the same. The problem is, these companies are so big, they can no longer do anything on a small scale and make it profitable.


The other big factor here is ..... Sony's new 25MP full frame chip which will soon be released and offered in several brands of cameras. At 25MP, these cameras are strong competitors in the MF market. As the price falls on these chips, we will see more people migrating to digital who used to buy 120 film. I fear these low cost 25MP chips (vs. Phase One, Leaf, etc.) might be the final nail in the film coffin... at least how the film is made and sold today.... of course, this won't happen overnight, but its remarkable how fast these high tech products move into the market and displace other technologies (120 film).


OTOH, it seems Fuji has some commitment to the Japanese market of film users. Maybe the loyalist mindset of the heads of Fuji will keep film alive longer than expected. Its a crap shoot for sure!

[Kuzano]

I wonder in five years .... if the price of a roll of 120 is at $14 dollars a roll (as an extreme example) how many would hold out.

My response to your question... never impose a price tag on either avocation or vocation. A hobbyist will not sneeze twice at that price tag, and a professional will do what a professional has to do.

Frankly, I think film is dirt cheap in terms of what I pay to have fun. I know golfers who are going out and spending $60 bucks greens fees (no return) for a couple of hours of sheer frustration (as it would be in my case).

I have a friend who races a hot rod pickup that he built himself (450 HP chevy) at an 1/8th mile drag strip. 3-4 runs cost him as much as your hypothetical roll of 120 film. Since he's never brought home a trophy... nothing to show for it. A weekend of trailering his pickup to the track sets him back a couple of hundred dollars.

I do photography because it's the least expensive hobby I have found, even in terms of equipment costs, that gives me something to remember.... images.

Will $20 rolls of 120 stop me... not likely. Will I go digital instead.... only if it gets a helll of a lot better than it is, and less work with less change in technology in any given period of time. Been there, done that.

I am tired of the 90&#37; solutions that are aimed at just siphoning more of my money off for the next generation of digital. Plus every new version of software has a new, and possibly steeper learning curve. Microsofts blunder into Vista is a prime example... just in Operating System alone.

It's never going to stop and let us off to enjoy the tools we have unless we quit looking at the new and wonderful..... everything.

[rguinter]

In a recent PDN (travel issue), there was an article about a guy who travels around the world shooting for Travel and Leisure (and others). He hauls around 2 Pentax 67s, plus an RZ. He says the airport security people just love him when he shows up with 140 rolls of 120. Mike

------------------
They love my Fugi G617 also. They always keep it under the scanner for many seconds (admiring it I guess). Then they take me aside, make me open the Tamrac pack, pull it out and open it up so they can swab the inside. I learned a long time ago to never put film in the pack with it. Bob

[rguinter]

...I am tired of the 90% solutions that are aimed at just siphoning more of my money off for the next generation of digital. Plus every new version of software has a new, and possibly steeper learning curve. Microsofts blunder into Vista is a prime example... just in Operating System alone.

It's never going to stop and let us off to enjoy the tools we have unless we quit looking at the new and wonderful..... everything.

---------------------------
Yes the new and wonderful is always top cost as well as top shelf. But like a new car the $$$ depreciation is steep. I like the fact that my G617 and Widelux 1500 are today selling on auction sites for more than I paid for them 15-years ago. I'm wondering what their digital equivalents (if there are any yet) will be worth when they are as old.

So I keep the fridge filled with 120/220 and enjoy the tools I have. Bob

[ghost]

Well- here we go, good timing resurrecting this thread...

...about once every year is a nice check-in...

Feb 2008-Mar 2009...

-At least one improved B&W emulsion this year (TMY2)- any major losses?

Seems film is just fine- gotta love the commitment from Ilford and Efke.

Where's all the "film is dead" folks in 2009? still around? I bet your camera from 2008 is outdated and needs upgraded, eh?

[Gordon Moat]

Kodak Ektar 100 is also now available in 120 rollfilm size. This is a colour negative film processed C-41. While I prefer E-6 films, I might try a roll or two.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat Photography

[John Bowen]

This thread is SOOOOO old that 120 film has outlasted most of the posters on the 1st page of this thread.....

A very high % of the early posters on this thread haven't posted here since 2006!

[mikebarger]

Interesting John.

Looks like Dan is the only person on page one that has posted since 2006.

Mike