LFPF censorship and moderation

[faberryman]

Conflating the the LGBT community with Neo-Nazis, the KKK, and ISIS is beyond the pale.

[Oren Grad]

From my perspective, it may be individual discomfort with the topic is the real issue.
What niggles at me is that apparently it was Richardman's post that was the problem.

"And Richard, your comment shows why this thread needs to be closed."

Kent's posts were problematic as well, and were factors in the decision to close the thread.

But you've neglected to reference what Richard wrote:

Dear Kent, I daresay your comments show why this project is needed. Thank you for proving its necessity.

And, later in the thread:

This project is about Transgender people. Another group with a label, and Kent is correct that a currently politically "hot-topic" label at that. They are a minority, but minorities have rights too. The Chinese Exclusions were written specifically for a minority group. Heck, 50 years ago, a Chinese person could not buy the house I am living in now, because of the community covenant. The entire group of Japanese American were treated like potential enemy of the state, etc. I can go on.

The lesson from the gay and lesbian community is that when people realize that "these people" are their neighbors, their friends, even their relatives, that's when acceptance begin. Transgender people are a minority, but they are here, they are there, they are us.

With that, Richard made clear that his agenda is fundamentally one of politico-social reform, and that he meant to promote it here and to call out those who object to it.

Richard is free to be passionate about whatever causes move him and to advocate those causes vigorously; as an artist it's his prerogative to decide that his photos and texts as indivisible parts of his work. There's nothing wrong with that! But given what he is trying to accomplish it simply means that this is not the place for this body of work. His website presents the work in full - everyone is free to view and enjoy it there.

The Forum, and we as moderators, take no position on the substantive merits of Richard's agenda or of Kent's objections to it. Everyone is free and welcome to have their own views on this and other political topics and to advocate those views vigorously in appropriate venues. This is not one of them.

Hand-to-hand combat over divisive political and social issues is highly disruptive of the purpose and functioning of this Forum. That is why it is not allowed. We are as entitled to maintain a space free of such distracting controversy as others are to seek a venue which encourages charged debate. We are sorry if that is disappointing to those who are moved by particular causes and would like to see those addressed through the photographic medium. If you feel strongly enough about that, you should create an "Activist Photographer" forum, with its rules tailored accordingly, to host such material and discuss it freely.

[Ralph Barker]

So the position of the forum is that members of the LGBT community (and forum members) are akin to Neo-Nazis, KKK or Isis. That is both insane and offensive on a level beyond my ability to describe at the moment. You have more than crossed the line, you are now probably bordering on breaking the law.
These actions and statements should be reported.
The moderators involved should be removed at the very least.

You're obviously missing the point. I'm not equating anyone to anyone else, but rather saying that the other topics would require similar treatment.

[Pfsor]

So the position of the forum is that members of the LGBT community (and forum members) are akin to Neo-Nazis, KKK or Isis. That is both insane and offensive on a level beyond my ability to describe at the moment. You have more than crossed the line, you are now probably bordering on breaking the law.
These actions and statements should be reported.

Indeed. Feel free to report the thread to any LBGT community organization that deals with these issues. It's appealing how far the comparison goes!

[RHITMrB]

You're obviously missing the point. I'm not equating anyone to anyone else, but rather saying that the other topics would require similar treatment.

No, they wouldn't. That's your choice, and it is absolutely a political one.

[Fr. Mark]

I come here much more for technical or how to information than anything else except maybe a bit of social/club membership reminder that I'm not the only one lugging around almost 100 pounds of LFP gear. I think I found this forum after someone gave me a press camera and I wanted to know how to load film holders in the dark and its escalated from there. I do look at some of the photo sharing threads from time to time, too, and your work collectively is very inspiring to me even if I would never make pictures that resemble most of what I see.

I looked at this thread that caused this controversy, until I figured out what it was. I don't support LGBTQ agenda, there are both religious and scientific reasons for my position but I've seldom/never found it effective to get into that line of argumentation on line. So, upon being presented with a "hearts on sleeves thread" I had a look, realized it was a promotional piece for something I know to be misguided and went somewhere else with my time.

Given the preponderance of support in most artistic communities for doing things shocking and new and counter cultural I did not waste my time complaining about it.

That said, if the nudes thread was labeled some other way where it wasn't obvious what it was, it could get clicks from people who believe that people should keep their clothes on except for intimate relations with the person (singular) of the opposite sex to whom they are married and might inadvertently offend people. As it is, labeled as it is, the nudes thread is relatively safe and doesn't draw a firestorm of controversy as far as I know. Similarly, we have a "lounge" section where things are less restrictive etc.

So, I tend to think here that a bit of truth in advertising could've avoided escalating this situation.

Also, folks, we are adults. It's a fallen world. There will be people who have well considered (at least in their minds) reasons for holding positions contrary to yours. This does not make them non-human or stupid (those aren't synonymous). Nor is it particularly effective to hurl invective at them to try to change their positions. Can we all take a deep breath and exhale slowly while backing away from the edge of the cliff?

[8thsamurai]

While we appreciate the fact that the quotes from the subjects are an integral part of Richardman's mixed-media (photo + text) presentation of the project, the LFPF is a photography forum, not a forum for presenting, documenting, or discussing sociopolitical issues. There are usually strong feelings on all sides of any sociopolitical issue. The quotes from the subjects in the project, however, open the door for discussion that is outside the scope of this forum. So, while some feel not allowing the text is unfair censorship, it would be equally unfair to censor the other side of the discussion.

Thus, our decision was to stay true to the focus of this forum, just the photography.

As a side note, this position also precludes other, similarly-presented projects, such as portraits of members of the American Nazi Party, members of the KKK, or portraits of ISIS members showing their handywork. If we were to allow one topic, we'd be obliged to allow all.

Climate change is a hot button issue when will you be adding photos of; cars, trees, mines of any kind, fires, plastic, people, roads, stores, and air to the list of banned subjects? Thank you in advance for your learned and not at all personally biased response.

[RHITMrB]

Hand-to-hand combat over divisive political and social issues is highly disruptive of the purpose and functioning of this Forum. That is why it is not allowed.

Great, so just delete the posts that involve "hand-to-hand combat."

[Oren Grad]

So the position of the forum is that members of the LGBT community (and forum members) are akin to Neo-Nazis, KKK or Isis.

Ralph said no such thing. He talked about projects, not people. If someone tried to use the Forum as a platform to promote a pictures-with-text project about gun rights under siege that would be shut down too.

This is an example of why political threads are a problem. Once people's hot buttons, whatever they are, get pushed, it becomes impossible to see clearly.

[8thsamurai]

Ralph said no such thing. He talked about projects, not people. If someone tried to use the Forum as a platform to promote a pictures-with-text project about gun rights under siege that would be shut down too.

This is an example of why political threads are a problem. Once people's hot buttons, whatever they are, get pushed, it becomes impossible to see clearly.

Look at all these people getting fired up over human rights, weird.