Would it be incredibly difficult for an existing company to make Efke PL25M?

[LabRat]

I can't think of any manufacturer that has had a slow film on and off production/distribution and that's in 50+ years of shooting film. That's excluding copy/micro film and odd ball films like Techical Pan

Agfa stopped APX25 in LF very quickly slaes were just too low, they ceased it in 35mm & 120 becuase a key chemical component was banned and it was to expensive to re-formulate it due to low sales. I think EFKE eventually ran into a similar problem with EFKE 25 and Mirko indicated this was an issue with making a new slow emulsion.

Numerous Kodak films went due to poor sales Pan-X, Plus-X etc, Ilford have kept all their range except dropping Delta 400 in sheet film sizes, Pan F was never available in sheet film.

It's overlooked that modern T-grain (and type) emulsions are very close to the quality of older films like EFKE 25 which was probably the sharpest and finest grain film available from the 50's until Tmax.

The reality is the films we have today are the best available the biggest loss is APX25 & APX100.

Ian

Ian, here in the states we have had some slow films in different formats that went away, seemingly for good, and surprisingly came back for a short or long time... (Mostly imported films...) Pan F, APX25 come to mind (and this includes 35mm)... Some papers have been like that,too...

Probably distribution issues, and it's hard to compete with the big yellow god here... But the first answer the retailers gave was "It's gone"...

Don't get me started on Pan X... Versatile film, that when discontinued, the Kodak rep told me "You don't need it anymore"... But when that was gone, it was gone for good...

Steve K

[Pere Casals]

Just curious, this film was so unique and by far my favorite in large format, and now it's been gone for a while.

How difficult would it be for a company like Ilford or Bergger, or another small startup company (film Ferrania, Cinestill) to get the process from Fotomatika and produce this film? I know the factory shut down because their machinery broke down and wasn't worth fixing.

If I had to wish for one "new" film, this one would be it.

Making a new film it's a high investment for the today's sales volume. Launching a batch may need some $40k investment, if everything work at first try, then if they make some $1 net (I completely speculate) they need to sell 40k rolls to pay back, not easy with "special" films with limited market.

Ferrania closed and now it's an startup.

Cinestill do not make film, they take Kodak Vision 3 movie film and they remove from it the Rem-Jet layer in order it can be processed C-41, instead ECN 2.

Anyway the big loss I feel... it was Efke's IR820...

[interneg]

Making a new film it's a high investment for the today's sales volume. Launching a batch may need some $40k investment, if everything work at first try, then if they make some $1 net (I completely speculate) they need to sell 40k rolls to pay back, not easy with "special" films with limited market.

Depending on the amount of R&D needed you may be off by one or two orders of magnitude...

[Bob Salomon]

Making a new film it's a high investment for the today's sales volume. Launching a batch may need some $40k investment, if everything work at first try, then if they make some $1 net (I completely speculate) they need to sell 40k rolls to pay back, not easy with "special" films with limited market.

Ferrania closed and now it's an startup.

Cinestill do not make film, they take Kodak Vision 3 movie film and they remove from it the Rem-Jet layer in order it can be processed C-41, instead ECN 2.

Anyway the big loss I feel... it was Efke's IR820...

How many rolls would you buy? How many rolls would people that you know buy? How much of those 40,000 rolls would not be sold?

[Pere Casals]

How many rolls would you buy? How many rolls would people that you know buy? How much of those 40,000 rolls would not be sold?

Hello Bob,

And still there is the chance that the initial emulsion batch to not work well for a number of reasons, the grain formulation mixes different ammounts of different sized grains, obtained by micro filtration, http://www.vivianeli.com/blog/wp-con...-C-300x300.jpg, but also there are different layers with different grain types, dye sensitization... also the process has to be repeatable.

The way a small company can survive is exemplified by Ilford, and it includes knowing the marked very, very well, taking care of customers and mastering the science and the bussiness.

I read this article time ago: http://www.vivianeli.com/blog/2015/0...ined-industry/

Regards.

PD: Anyway if all of them stop making film we'll shot collodion, like Sally Mann !!! : )

[Bruce Watson]

How difficult would it be for a company like Ilford or Bergger, or another small startup company (film Ferrania, Cinestill) to get the process from Fotomatika and produce this film?

The ideas of coating photographic films, and "small startup company" don't mix well. Producing film, and doing it well, is a big endeavor that takes a lot of equipment and manpower, even using as much automation as you can. It's not something you can do in a garage on a Saturday afternoon.

Have you ever read Robert Shanebrook's book Making KODAK Film? It'll open up your eyes.

[dwross]

Apologies to y'all who know what I'm about to say .

I agree that a Fortune 500 size film company is not going to fit in a garage. That said...it takes far less space than a garage to make your own film and or even enough to have a small "cottage scale" company. It no more takes a Kodak size operation to make great, pre-modern film than it takes an industrial bakery to make a loaf of bread. Not everyone's cup of tea, certainly, but it is important to know that making your own film is absolutely possible. http://deniseross.zenfolio.com/

[Drew Wiley]

Make your own. Just get a fan and a pile of dust. I've got a whole bunch of the damn stuff in the freezer that is worthless due to random dust in the emulsion.
Prior to those later coatings when the factory was on its last legs, I loved that film.

[dwross]

? Apologies, Drew. I'm not following your meaning. Do you mean that handmade film is full of dust (it's no more so than commercial film processed and dried in a darkroom -- depends on the darkroom) or that your Efke film was contaminated?

[Tin Can]

Apologies to y'all who know what I'm about to say .

I agree that a Fortune 500 size film company is not going to fit in a garage. That said...it takes far less space than a garage to make your own film and or even enough to have a small "cottage scale" company. It no more takes a Kodak size operation to make great, pre-modern film than it takes an industrial bakery to make a loaf of bread. Not everyone's cup of tea, certainly, but it is important to know that making your own film is absolutely possible. http://deniseross.zenfolio.com/

Needs hearing twice! +1