Blotchy pattern on 4x5 negatives

[Neal Chaves]

They must have been made by the same supplier that made Toyo bellows.

[B.S.Kumar]

I am glad to inform the community that Toyo has made changes to their 4x5 film holders to resolve the problems reported here. The new Toyo CH45II (AL) 4x5 film holders have aluminum dark slides.
http://www.largeformatphotography.in...=1#post1361451

Kumar

[Willie]

So I did a test to try and isolate the problem, and as it turns out, the Toyo dark slides are definitely not opaque, and sunlight will definitely pass through them, as Christopher Barrett suggested (thanks for the tip).

I decided to expose 6 sheets of film within closed film holders to direct noontime sun (about 7500 foot-candles by my meter) at various durations to see if the light would get through the dark slide. I used 3 of my new Toyo film holders that I had loaded with Tri-X about a month ago. I cut the numbers 1-6 out of blackwrap (a thick black light-tight foil used in film and TV lighting) and taped them to the outside of the dark slides so that I could identify which sheet I was looking at. I also taped a larger patch of blackwrap below the number, to give me a control so I could see if there was any density on the negative prior to the test exposure (from some previous possible light contamination within the last month while it was in the holder).

I wrapped the holders in blackwrap sleeves, took them outside, then unwrapped the sleeves one at a time and exposed each sheet. #1 was 15 seconds, #2 30 seconds, #3 one minute, #4 two minutes, #5 five minutes, and #6 ten minutes. The effect showed up strongly even at 15 seconds (I've attached a picture of the #1 negative).

It makes me want to do another test with even shorter exposures to try and see if any exposure to sunlight is safe. I think when I do it I'll only load one side of the holders with film in case the exposure on the "B" side is somehow affecting the film on the "A" side.

If any amount of direct sun gives this effect then I would think I'd have to take pretty serious precautions when doing daytime exterior shoots.

Attachment 152334

This is unacceptable. Glad they replaced the slides. Did they also give you new sheet film for your trouble and troubleshooting?

[mattphogan]

Just wanted to add another experience here. I had the exact same issues with Toyo 4x5 holders, purchased from Badger in Oct 2015. The holders that I used in direct sunlight exhibited the symptoms. On cloudy days I haven't had problems actually.

I spoke with Rita in service at MAC Group (Toyo), and she said there was just one (or maybe a few?) batches that got out with the bad dark slides. They "don't know what happened." They promptly shipped me replacement slides at no cost.

No, they did not cover the cost of wasted film, the disappointment in ruined photographs, or my lost time troubleshooting the problem.

If you're having this problem (in the U.S.), contact:

Rita Carter
Service Group, MAC GROUP US
75 Virginia Rd, White Plains, NY 10603
914-347-3300 · RitaC@MACgroupUS.com

Big thanks to this forum for alerting me to the cause of this problem.

Cheers,
Matt

[StuartR]

I also had this problem. I was able to verify that it was the dark slides by shining a bright light through them. I have a very powerful head lamp that is meant for biking, and when it was pressed against the dark slide, it was very obviously bleeding through...even this iphone shot was able to pick it up. I was getting random fogging for months every once in awhile...I have a number of holders and a grafmatic, so it was very difficult for me to narrow down the problem. Nice to finally have the solution! That said, I think it ruined at least ten frames...

[dpn]

Thank you all for the detective work on this issue. I purchased two Toyo holders in May 16, and loaded them with Portra 400. They sat for six months before i developed the film, and all of the sheets had the same blotchy light damage. I just wrote MAC for replacement dark slides.

[chacabuco]

I received my replacement slides from Toyo and just got back a big batch of film and...more blotches. Not sure if somehow some of my old slides got mixed in or if the problem persists with the new ones. Before I call Toyo back again wondering if anyone else has had issues with the new slides

[dpn]

Mine are en route from Toyo, and I'll test and update as soon as I receive them.

[mattphogan]

UPDATE: I carefully switched out all my dark slides with the replacement ones sent from Toyo. The replacement ones do feel a bit thicker, but unfortunately they indeed exhibit the same problems. I tested them by putting a holder with freshly opened and loaded Portra 400 in my office window for a morning, exposed to direct sunlight for about 4-5 hours. I then flipped it for the rest of the day when the window is in open shade. Attached are those 2 test sheets. Not good. I'll be contacting Toyo again as soon as I find the time.

[dpn]

I haven't tested my new darkslides with film, but I can no longer shine a flashlight through them. That's good at least.

They've definitely got the Toyo stink!