Anyone use the B&W King 5x7 (or 4x5) developing reel & tank (Nikor-like)?

[Alan9940]

Alan - a couple of questions: Did you pre-soak prior to development? Have you tried the tank with Pyrocat?

Perhaps the 5.5 min was a bit short for this tank...especially if with no presoak?

Would a (gentle) dip/dunk/spin scenario work better...especially in combo with a presoak and longer development time?

Just thinking out loud. This tank seems too compelling in terms of the potentially great logistics/economy/control it could offer to simply dismiss out of hand based on your specific test.

Hello John,

2 min pre-soak; same as I've done for many, many years of tank development for 35mm & 120. Actually, Pyrocat-HD is going to be my next test run. But, I didn't buy this tank with the thought that I'd be restricted to certain processes. I bought it with the idea that it would allow me to complete various development scenarios that I literally can't do with my Jobo. I agree that it's a very compelling idea, but if actual results don't hold up then it's basically a tin can. Your suggested dip/dunk/spin scenario might work better, but I want this to be a daylight system. If I'm going to have to process in the darkroom, I may as well use other techniques.

Thanks for the thoughts!

[bw-king]

Dear Alan
See you try B&W KING's sample, I talk about my analysis.
Any kind of developing equipment has its own operating method, B&W KING is the same, you need an understanding of the process.
I think that you have encountered the problem of film development, is because of the rotation method of the problem, a slight adjustment can be resolved.
In accordance with the data you provide, you are developing a continuous rotating tank core. The rotating time of the tank is too long or intense, may be the cause of the problem.

Developing and stirring method of B&W KING:
1, the rotation of the core to take a slow, interval rotation method, to avoid rapid, continuous rotation.
2, the operator can also take the traditional flip, shake and a short period of time of the tank cross rolling development method.
3, black and white film development standard rotation mode time:
Turn two circles (below) /10 seconds, interval 50 seconds (above).

Sorry more than rotating way important content, is missing in the English instruction manual.I am very sorry.I will complement as soon as possible to modify the instruction content.

This picture below 5 x7 gradations of color black and white film, is I use this way of mixing enhancement effect.Is able to meet the requirements of our photography from the intuitive.
My analysis, wants to discuss.
Thank you for your support for B&W KING.
I couldn't speak English, that is computer translation, there is likely to be wrong, please forgive me
Your friend
liu junjie

[Alan9940]

Hello All,

Well...sorry to report that my second run using the B&W King 4x5 tank is not noticeably better than the first. See attached. Following Liu's suggestions and any other info I could find regarding using this tank, I performed slow rotations for 10 secs out of every minute. First rotation cycle was clockwise, second counter-clockwise, third back clockwise, etc. I will try inversion agitation next, but I'm not hopeful. I will also do a minimal agitation run with Pyrocat-HD which is primarily the reason I bought this tank.

Overall, though, I cannot express how disappointed I am. I had really high hopes and really, really wanted it to work out, but... Too bad there isn't a return policy.

[bw-king]

Dear Alan
I am a B&W KING designer.But I first is the user of this product, I am also a photographer.
I am serious analysis before and after you posted on the two film.I think, in the middle of the second rotation trace is much better than the first one.But the rotate speed and time is long, need to reduce the time of the rotation and intensity.
The best turn turns to reduce 1/2.
Also can try turning upside down developing tank (once per minute), there is no the trace of turbulence in the middle.
Because each person's technique is different, according to my advice, you will flush out film is satisfactory to you.
In addition, don't know your overall flushing time, uneven film as a whole, the right reason.
Each product has its own operation method, need a master process, B&W KING and so on.I in use, also have failure process, but the slow rotation, only 10 seconds per minute while on a business trip (no more than twice), still 50 seconds.Not seen after the failure of the uneven development.
B&W KING is designed for photographers use, therefore, responsible for the quality of the product, to each photographer to teach the correct method of use, is my promise.
Is our photographer counterparts, but also has met the friends, I value every user's opinion, is willing to further discussion.
Your friend
liu junjie

[AAP]

Hello All,

Well...sorry to report that my second run using the B&W King 4x5 tank is not noticeably better than the first. See attached. Following Liu's suggestions and any other info I could find regarding using this tank, I performed slow rotations for 10 secs out of every minute. First rotation cycle was clockwise, second counter-clockwise, third back clockwise, etc. I will try inversion agitation next, but I'm not hopeful. I will also do a minimal agitation run with Pyrocat-HD which is primarily the reason I bought this tank.

Overall, though, I cannot express how disappointed I am. I had really high hopes and really, really wanted it to work out, but... Too bad there isn't a return policy.

I'll chime in as I've reported back favorably. Now, I'm developing 5x7 and using the exact same approach I use in Paterson tanks with 35, 120 and 4x5. As for film I'm shooting both FP4 and Ortho Litho (Don't ask!). I'm developing with PMK Pyro. As for rotations, I am following my every 15 seconds regime. Rotation speed I've worked to keep moderate/slow and very even. I've not run any formal tests but per my eyes, my negs are perfect; well as perfect as they can be given my exposures. What I've loved is that I've not had to alter my fundamental process at all and I'm achieving equally satisfactory results. Again, this is per my eyes and aims. The only nuances I've noted already are the fluid volume differences from the Paterson and the need to make sure the negs are locked in behind the vertical bars. Other than these I've found this tank works extremely well with my 5x7 processing. No issues.

[scheinfluger_77]

Suggestion:

Let's see the card you are photographing. The mottling is not identical but there is the same vertical strip in the center of the negatives.

[Alan9940]

Yay...success!!

I had always planned to do a test run with a pyro developer and, per AAP's post, I had some WD2D+ around which has similar agitation cycles as PMK. However, I added a bit of a wrinkle. Per the WD2D+ instructions, agitate for the first 30 secs, followed by 15 secs agitation each 30 sec interval thereafter. For each agitation cycle following the first, I rotated the lid slowly and as smoothly as I could for about 12 secs, then I tipped the tank N/S/E/W and gave it a bit of a twist for the last 3 secs. The negs are hanging to dry, but my initial review of the Zone VI exposure reveals a quite smooth and even gray tone across the entire negative. If I stare, I think I can detect a very slight increase in density as a stripe the length of the middle (perhaps increased agitation around the middle spirals?), but it's so minimal that I doubt it would be any issue when printing a normal neg.

I am VERY encouraged at this point! Thank you all for listening and all suggestions made. Since I bought the B&W King 4x5 tank specifically for various pyro development scenarios, I am quite pleased with these results today.

scheinfluger_77: The card I use (actually a piece of mattboard) is very clean with no marks anywhere to be found. I suspect what we're seeing with the strip in the center of the neg is increased agitation around the central spirals of the reel. Following today's results, I believe I can eliminate that once I really nail the agitation routine.

One remaining question: Occasionally, when rotating the lid it seems to get "stuck" and becomes difficult to turn...anybody else have this issue? What was the resolution, if any.

Thank you.

[AAP]

Yay...success!!

I had always planned to do a test run with a pyro developer and, per AAP's post, I had some WD2D+ around which has similar agitation cycles as PMK. However, I added a bit of a wrinkle. Per the WD2D+ instructions, agitate for the first 30 secs, followed by 15 secs agitation each 30 sec interval thereafter. For each agitation cycle following the first, I rotated the lid slowly and as smoothly as I could for about 12 secs, then I tipped the tank N/S/E/W and gave it a bit of a twist for the last 3 secs. The negs are hanging to dry, but my initial review of the Zone VI exposure reveals a quite smooth and even gray tone across the entire negative. If I stare, I think I can detect a very slight increase in density as a stripe the length of the middle (perhaps increased agitation around the middle spirals?), but it's so minimal that I doubt it would be any issue when printing a normal neg.

I am VERY encouraged at this point! Thank you all for listening and all suggestions made. Since I bought the B&W King 4x5 tank specifically for various pyro development scenarios, I am quite pleased with these results today.

scheinfluger_77: The card I use (actually a piece of mattboard) is very clean with no marks anywhere to be found. I suspect what we're seeing with the strip in the center of the neg is increased agitation around the central spirals of the reel. Following today's results, I believe I can eliminate that once I really nail the agitation routine.

One remaining question: Occasionally, when rotating the lid it seems to get "stuck" and becomes difficult to turn...anybody else have this issue? What was the resolution, if any.

Thank you.

Yep! I just go in the opposite direction a couple times. I've just assumed it due to mechanical binding which over time I'd expect to round off, smooth out.

[R.K]

Dear AAP, the cap when rotated may get stuck occasionally in the gap between the tank lid and the little intermediate tube-washer what stays under it. So when you rotating the cap, don't push on it with your hands. In opposite hold cap in you hands and let it likely fly above that tube-washer and nothing will stuck any more.

[bw-king]

Dear photographer friend
Spring Festival in China, I send you a good blessing.
Thank you for the attention and support of B&W KING.
Your friends
Liu Junjie