Getting back to 8x10, looking at Arca Swiss

[Ari]

After a few months without 8x10, I'm starting to get the itch again.
MF is great, digital fills a need, but 8x10 is my favourite, by a long shot.

I'm looking to get back into the format by the new year, and I'd like something light but rock-steady; a wood camera is not on my radar, it has to be metal.
To that end, I've been looking at Arca-Swiss cameras.
There's a dizzying array of models and accessories, and not much information online, so I'm hoping someone here can at least point me in the right direction.

Apparently, there are a few 8x10 models that weigh about 4kg and fold down compactly; these use a telescoping rail and are a monorail/field hybrid.

Price aside, is there a model/series I should look at? Older cameras are fine with me, and the price would certainly be better, but information is my priority at the moment.

Thanks in advance.

[jeroldharter]

Ari,

I had an older Arca Swiss 8x10, the silver ones, something like the Arca "C". It was OK, but heavy and no comparison to the newer F-Line series (which I had in 4x5).

A basic Arca Swiss F-Line 8x10 is a great camera. The next step up is the 8x10 Metric which has geared movements (rise and shift) which is really nice. Weighs more and costs more but I would get that if I could. The next level up is the F-Line Micrometric Orbix which is like the metric but includes geared front tilt. That is a great feature but it is a type of center tilt and I never used it that much. So unless you really need that feature you should pass because it adds a lot to the cost.

Another thing to consider is bellows length. The standard bellows and focus rail length might limit focal length. For example, you should verify that you have enough extension 450 and 600 mm lenses if you use lenses in that range. The other thing to be aware of: although they compact well for carrying, they are oddly shaped because of the rail. It is not a big deal, but the camera is not like a regular box field camera and is more of a challenge to fit properly in your pack.

If you can tolerate the massive weight and relatively short bellows, the Toyo 8x10 MXT is a good option. Built like a tank. My favorite 8x10 was Wehman. They are not rock solid like an Arca, but they are solid, pack well, have long bellows extension, are very easy to use, have asymmetrical rear swing which is very useful, and are almost free relative to an Arca. But they are no longer manufactured and don't come up used too often.

[Ari]

Hi Jerold,
Thank you for all the information.
I like the idea of keeping things simple, the F-line sounds like a good possibility. I have lived this long without geared movements, so not having them is ok.
Yes, bellows extension is important, as I use lenses as long as 600mm, and carrying/packing the camera is important, too.

Weight is also an issue; I did use a Toyo 810M for a number of years, and only recently had to sell it because of a hip problem. I loved the stability and smooth action, but the weight was problematic these last few months.
I did once consider the Wehman, but opted for the 810M at the time.

Am I correct in assuming that an F-Line component (i.e. rear standard) is compatible with, say, a Metric?

EDIT: I just found the Precision Camera Works website, it has a lot of good background information, but I'd still like to hear from any of you that have direct experience with an AS 8x10 - good or bad.
Thanks again.

[Daniel Stone]

8x10 Arca's don't come on the market that often these days. I had an F-line(bought it from a fellow member here). Great camera, lightweight, but for me, I needed center tilts, not base tilts. So I sold it.

TBH, the most ergonomic, packable/easy to store camera that I've used/owned was a Phillips. The current, almost identical version is the Chamonix. Not "cheap", but you can probably pick one up brand new cheaper than buying a used F-line with an "unknown" background of use/ownership.
You'll get bellows compatibility from wide to long, so a 600mm lens shouldn't be an issue.
Just my 2¢ of course

-Dan

[Drew Wiley]

Phillips cameras are getting ridiculously expensive, though I must admit mine has held up superbly after all these years of outdoor torture, and it was one of the
first Dick Phillips ever made. New Chamonix cameras are reasonable by comparison and look like a worthy substitute, being based on the Phillips concept. So it
the Wilderness brand, though I've never actually seen one of those. Lots of good choices out there. Even a couple of Wehmans have turned up lately, another
lightweight alternative design. People seem to prize Arcas, so they don't come cheap; but I prefer the Sinar system for monorail usage due to the abundance of
components to choose from.

[Peter De Smidt]

I'd get a basic f-line. The controls are all very smooth. I borrowed a 4x5 for about 6 months a few years ago. F-lines are my favorite location monorails by far.

[Sal Santamaura]

...Yes, bellows extension is important, as I use lenses as long as 600mm...

Did you keep the Cooke triple? If so, you'll need a fair bit more than 600mm of bellows to focus the front cell alone closer than infinity.

[macolive]

Did you keep the Cooke triple? If so, you'll need a fair bit more than 600mm of bellows to focus the front cell alone closer than infinity.

If you buy brand new, I believe you can customize your order to have the longer bellows. You can also customize the order to have a longer bench/rail.

I currently have the F-metric 4x5 and I was thinking of getting the 8x10 format set plus a longer rail. So that would give me two interchangeable systems. If I ever needed more bellows extension, I could get another carrier and frame to connect the 8x10 bellows and the 4x5 bellows. Not that I think I would ever need it.

[Ari]

8x10 Arca's don't come on the market that often these days. I had an F-line(bought it from a fellow member here). Great camera, lightweight, but for me, I needed center tilts, not base tilts. So I sold it.

TBH, the most ergonomic, packable/easy to store camera that I've used/owned was a Phillips. The current, almost identical version is the Chamonix. Not "cheap", but you can probably pick one up brand new cheaper than buying a used F-line with an "unknown" background of use/ownership.
You'll get bellows compatibility from wide to long, so a 600mm lens shouldn't be an issue.
Just my 2¢ of course

-Dan

Thanks, Dan; field cameras have that distinct advantage over other cameras: easy storage, quick to set up, etc etc. I've been through all of the metal field cameras, and my friend's Canham JMC 810 was light and relatively small.
Build quality was ok, and that's where the Toyo 810M sparkled, but that got quite heavy after a mile or two.

Phillips cameras are getting ridiculously expensive, though I must admit mine has held up superbly after all these years of outdoor torture, and it was one of the
first Dick Phillips ever made. New Chamonix cameras are reasonable by comparison and look like a worthy substitute, being based on the Phillips concept. So it
the Wilderness brand, though I've never actually seen one of those. Lots of good choices out there. Even a couple of Wehmans have turned up lately, another
lightweight alternative design. People seem to prize Arcas, so they don't come cheap; but I prefer the Sinar system for monorail usage due to the abundance of
components to choose from.

Thank you, Drew; having gone through many metal cameras, I figured the Arcas were worth a look.
A Philips just doesn't make sense at current pricing, and even though the Chamonix is its modern kin, I can't bring myself to get a camera that uses wood.
I've looked at Wilderness, they are interesting, but, spoiled as I am, I was looking for something lighter (under 10 pounds), and the Wilderness clocks in at 12 pounds.
If money were no object, I'd take a hard look at a customized (950mm bellows) Gibellini.

I'd get a basic f-line. The controls are all very smooth. I borrowed a 4x5 for about 6 months a few years ago. F-lines are my favorite location monorails by far.

Got an email from Rod Klukas, and he also recommended I look at the F-Line. Thanks, Peter.

Did you keep the Cooke triple? If so, you'll need a fair bit more than 600mm of bellows to focus the front cell alone closer than infinity.

I did keep it, Sal; I knew I'd return to 8x10 eventually, and the Cooke is not so easily put aside. Last time I used the 646mm cell alone, I needed almost 800mm of extension to get the shot in focus.
I also kept the Schneider 150 XL, and those two lenses will be all I would likely need.

If you buy brand new, I believe you can customize your order to have the longer bellows. You can also customize the order to have a longer bench/rail.

I currently have the F-metric 4x5 and I was thinking of getting the 8x10 format set plus a longer rail. So that would give me two interchangeable systems. If I ever needed more bellows extension, I could get another carrier and frame to connect the 8x10 bellows and the 4x5 bellows. Not that I think I would ever need it.

Would that I could buy brand new, but that is regrettably not an option.
How do you like your 4x5 F-metric?

[koh303]

If not an arca - KMV?
You should just get a new one if you can find it used... $$$$