Question on movement orders

[tgtaylor]

Since you mentioned architectural photography and the shifting of focus planes when tilting, I'd recommend getting a yaw-free monorail such as a Toyo: http://toyoview.com/Products/45GII_45GX/45GII_45GX.html which can be found used in good condition at a reasonable price. You don't need all the movements of the above for landscape photography and I would suggest that you purchase a field camera such as the Toyo 45CF: http://toyoview.com/Products/45CF/45CF.html or AX http://toyoview.com/Products/45AX/45AXad.html for hiking/backpacking. I own and use all these cameras (the ROBOS instead of the GII/GX) and recommend them upon personal experience.

Thomas

[A_Tabor]

I am very well versed in the optics and mathematical principles behind the cameras, and have experience employing these techniques in robotic controlled imaging systems during their development and deployment, however my experience in using them involved me sitting at a keyboard watching data flow in and directing things to build a better and more accurate model of 3D spaces.

What I'm rather blind about is the hands on mechanics for dealing with these in a manual camera while adjusting the view on a ground glass, rather than wide spectrum high res digital sensors, and from a lens that wasn't a custom made unit that costs nearly a quarter mill. Whether I buy something off the shelf or build something doesn't change that, but before I get anything I would like to have a bit better of an idea of issues others have had with various designs and functionality in the past.


So to reshape the core question to this thread: What aspects of various camera's designs have frustrated you or caused headaches in the past, and what design elements have you found save you time or made using the camera easier for you?

[Oren Grad]

I wouldn't try to discourage you from building your own camera if building things is an activity you enjoy in its own right. But this...

Part of the goal is to minimize general costs while getting into things.

...will be true only if you value your time at zero, or very close to it.

Taste in LF camera design is such a personal thing. Our favorites vary; different design features please and/or annoy. So the answers to this...

So to reshape the core question to this thread: What aspects of various camera's designs have frustrated you or caused headaches in the past, and what design elements have you found save you time or made using the camera easier for you?

...will be all over the map, with no clear overall indication of "good" design features vs "bad" design features, except for obvious things like "rigid is better than floppy". But even there, you'll find different degrees of tolerance for less-than-perfect rigidity, and different preferences for tradeoffs of that against size, weight and price.

The best education in LF camera design really is to lay your hands on some cameras and work with them yourself.

[Bob Salomon]

Since you mentioned architectural photography and the shifting of focus planes when tilting, I'd recommend getting a yaw-free monorail such as a Toyo: http://toyoview.com/Products/45GII_45GX/45GII_45GX.html which can be found used in good condition at a reasonable price. You don't need all the movements of the above for landscape photography and I would suggest that you purchase a field camera such as the Toyo 45CF: http://toyoview.com/Products/45CF/45CF.html or AX http://toyoview.com/Products/45AX/45AXad.html for hiking/backpacking. I own and use all these cameras (the ROBOS instead of the GII/GX) and recommend them upon personal experience.

Thomas

Nonsense!
Every camera is yaw free. If the camera has the swing point above the tilt point then you just rotate the camera 90 degrees on the tripod head and it is now yaw free. Or use lenses with large image circles. Level the camera to the subject and use a camera with large amounts of rise fall shift. Then you just use these direct displacements to position the image on the gg and the only tilt or swing needed would be for Scheimpflug control. Linhof Kardans have exceptionally great amounts of direct displacement for this very purpose. And, if your camera has optical axis tilts, rather then base tilts, then the image won't change its position on the gg after doing the needed tilt.

[Oren Grad]

And not to be totally evasive about it: field cameras are my thing, the simpler the better (though I do own other types for special purposes). The only movement I use regularly is front rise/fall, of which I'll take as much as I can get. If I were regularly doing tabletop setups or architecture, rather than the general field snapshooting I currently do, I'd choose a monorail rather than trying to pile epicycles upon epicycles of control complexity on to a folding field camera design.

[John Kasaian]

So to reshape the core question to this thread: What aspects of various camera's designs have frustrated you or caused headaches in the past, and what design elements have you found save you time or made using the camera easier for you?

FWIW I'm happy as a clam with my old Deardorff, a 1920's design. Some guys like the latest Canham/Ebony/Ritter/Chamonix. It's all good but the crux of the matter is how you feel about any given design. They'll most all take you where you need to go but you will find some will be more intuitive to use than others and that's a good thing as LF is s-l-o-w. For times when the light is rapidly changing and you need to get the shot pronto, there is no manual nor directions to follow---your eyes and your fingers will make it happen and the gray matter will after the fact say "yes, of course that is what I meant to do."

[tgtaylor]

I am very well versed in the optics and mathematical principles behind the cameras, and have experience employing these techniques in robotic controlled imaging systems during their development and deployment, however my experience in using them involved me sitting at a keyboard watching data flow in and directing things to build a better and more accurate model of 3D spaces.

What I'm rather blind about is the hands on mechanics for dealing with these in a manual camera while adjusting the view on a ground glass, rather than wide spectrum high res digital sensors, and from a lens that wasn't a custom made unit that costs nearly a quarter mill. Whether I buy something off the shelf or build something doesn't change that, but before I get anything I would like to have a bit better of an idea of issues others have had with various designs and functionality in the past.

Then get a Toyo GX (or similar) which will do everything you want to so and then some. Why waste time and money with a lessor camera that can't? For landscape and portability, The Toyo CF or the technical AX (or similar). Be aware, though, that you will have to look for a used GX since only a few photographers need a camera with that capability (which also cost more) and they have a tendency to hold on to the GX.

Thomas

Thomas


So to reshape the core question to this thread: What aspects of various camera's designs have frustrated you or caused headaches in the past, and what design elements have you found save you time or made using the camera easier for you?

[jp]

There's lots of things that you think would drive you crazy and they don't, and things that drive you crazy you didn't think of. Best just get a camera, use it for a while, and if it's not ideal, use the forum to buy and sell till you get something that is good for you. Otherwise, go to some sort of LF workshop or gathering and see how everyone else's camera works.

[Bruce Barlow]

Building a camera before having used one is akin to building a car without a driver's license, or ever having been behind the wheel; theory deviating from practice as it usually does.

I agree with those who say buy an inexpensive, working one, use it, and later when it drives you nuts, find another one that fixes the problems you're having, none of which we can really anticipate here. We are all being armchair photographers guessing about what you will want to do based on what we have done.

And as far as cost? You sound like a really skilled guy. My secretary used to tell me that I should value my time on weekends at $100/hour. That was in 1992. What's your time worth? And having made furniture in my time, what's your REALSITIC estimate of how many new workshop toys - uh, I mean tools - you will have to invest in?

And then: I thought you wanted to photograph? If so, skip construction for now, get the stuff, and go do it. I bought a shiny new Wista in 1984, paid for express shipping, and was out in the field the day I received it. Figured I'd upgrade when it drove me nuts. I still use it as my go-to 4x5.

Go ye forth and photograph, methinks.