Tor,
Your finger may have slipped. At this hour Ebay USA has 211 Linhof items listed when you search for Linhof in the subject or the body and 276 for Sinar.
Tor,
Your finger may have slipped. At this hour Ebay USA has 211 Linhof items listed when you search for Linhof in the subject or the body and 276 for Sinar.
There might not be as many Linhof monorail items on eBay as Sinar, but the prices for used Linhof monorails is way DOWN there. I've been seeing near top of the line Linhof monorails going for a fraction of what they're worth, and you can get a very capable entry-level Linhof monorail for $2-300 - compared to a $200 Calumet or a $500 Sinar F. There is no contest at build quality - The Linhof is the BMW/Mercedes compared to Sinar's Volkswagan and the Cambo/Calumet/Toyo Chevy ;-) They are all good cameras that will get the job done, but the Sinars are stamped and bent metal - The Linhofs are machined works of art.
Mr. salomon: My finger certainly not slipped: Search were made for Linhof Kardan items and Sinar items respectively as about all sinar items fit all Sinars, but only few items from a general Linhof e bay search fit the Linhof Kardan, so a relevant search to compare had to be on Linhof Kardan (searching for Linhof Kardan in both title & description).
Frank: It's probably possible to get the ugly & cumbersome Linhof Color Kardan (based on a tech 4"x5" body on a monorail) for $$ 200, but ceratinly not a recent kardan. Build quaity of the old Linhof (older tech III for example) were NOTHING to brag of - I have had several, and they sported dubious castings, finishing & workmanship, but the tech IV, Tech 70 (6x9cm) & Bi-Kardan were absolutely excelent, about but not surpassing the just as well made Sinar Norma which contrary to the older Linhof Monorails is completely compatible (save for Sinar P2 metering back & DB shutter) in todays Sinar system - also all rail mounted parts fits. If You have ever handled a sinar P, You will se that it have about no stamped parts (except mechanical covers, made from stamped parts also on Linhof....) but rather having monoblocks & main frames & other main parts made of solid blocks of aluminium, graflok arms of stainless steel, and internal gears and main gears of steel, racks of brass or easily replacable nylon. Being THE most used LF studio camera in Europe, the P/P2 is certainly nowhere behind any monorail when it comes to solidity & presision, but it does not have the incredibly 1960's mechanical finish of a Sinar Norma or Linhof Bi-Kardan. However, I agree that the cheaper Sinar F/F1 and the Wolf/Alpina/Sinar A (these three is one & the same camera) is of rather cheap construction, the cameras is still very populart ( & more expensive than similarely featured & made monorails) as they are a part of the biggest LF system around, and that even all parts of a Sinar F finds new use as one graduates to a P, P2 or X. As in 35mm and MF, having a LF camera belonging to a very large system & very wide availability of used cameras/parts is a BIG asset. No other LF system comes close.
It's interesting to se that Linhof's approach to a digital view camera (the Linhof 676 - system) is based not on the Technika, Kardan "U", Technikardan "L" or Master Kardan "L" -standard cameras, but rather on a copy of the Sinar P system: where tilt mechanism is mounted underneat the format frame - the standard tilting around virtual axle (functional tilt point is close to lens centre).
"only few items from a general Linhof e bay search fit the Linhof Kardan"
The items that will not fit a Kardan are view finders and grips. Anything that fits the front of a Technika or the back of a Technika will fit directly, or with an adapter, to a Kardan.
"Build quaity of the old Linhof (older tech III for example) were NOTHING to brag of"
You mean that all those people currently using a 1946 to 1952 Technika III cameras are not satisfied? You can't even find the wooden Sinar camera that pre dates the Norma, much less find 1000s of current users of it like you can the III.
" Linhof's approach to a digital view camera (the Linhof 676 - system) is based not on the Technika, Kardan "U", Technikardan "L" or Master Kardan "L" -standard cameras, but rather on a copy of the Sinar P system:"
Actually Linhf made the Kardan L with this design + continuously variable assmetric axis movements in the 70s and still make it with the Kardan GTL-AMS system. The M679 is closer to a GTL.
I guess Bob is his usual self, but as a matter of fact he is right. Build quality of the older Linhofs is truly extraordinary and the Linhof system is extremely interchangeable and adaptable.
Mr Salomon
The e bay listing of Linhof includes heaps of Linhof tripods, as well as viewfinders (for the tech), grips, backs for the smaller tech 6x9's obsolete filters & whatever have a Linhof 'tag on it. Large amount not related to kardan cameras . But of course You can use the tech IV & later lens boards on kardan, and You can use them on nearly any other monorail in the world using generic adapter boards from Cambo, Sinar, Horseman & Toyo, and You can use the cumbersome super rollex from 6x9's on kardan using big & hideously expensive adapter boards stealing bellow-draw. What have been my point is that there is very much more RELEVANT sinar LF parts around than RELEVANT Kardan parts, and I do not concider a 1950-vintage linhof 40.5 mm red filter being a "relevant Linhof part" in this context. Relevant parts is used bellows, format-change sets, auxilary standards, extension-rails, lens boards, rail-holders etc. Any realistic search of RELEVANT items for Kardan cameras show how little there is to chose from, but if you need to fill your drawer with weired items with the Linhof brand-name on it, there is luckily enough to chose from.
For quality of the earlier tech III: Oh yes - they have a lot of happy user , as have the even more flimsy Chrown Graphic, Speed graphic, Burke & James Press (a study in low-quality castings). But this is no indication to the cameras being well made, rather that they are inexpensive & do an adequate job. Quality improved later on, and the last Tech III's were much better, also being much closer to tech IV in apparance.
Why should I look for a sinar from before the Norma line, Mr. Salomon? - I didn't even mention this camera in my posting.
The Linhof 676 is a new (and sinar P-like) camera in the Linhof line - having the monobloch system (base tilt but virtual pivot-point close to lens axis) is totally different from anything Linhof have made earlier, as these have been "L" standard and "U" standard monorails.
By the way, I belive the Kardan L with this feature (but still L-standard) were taken out of production shortly after introduction due to it interfering with Sinar patents....
Tor, the shape of the standards are not relevant. The designers use the shape that fits their purpose best.
Using continuously variable assymetrical axis movements would be very difficult without the L standard. And that system allows the near far points to lie anywhere on the gg rather then on 2 predetermined lines chosen by the factory,
To each his own, if you prefer the Sinar system then use it. If you prefer a front standard that was originally designed to be an intermediate standard for a P then buy and use an F. Just be sure to learn how to use a standard that has one lock for multiple movements.
If you prefer a P2 in the field then by all means use one. Just look under the standards where the gears for rise are and see the grease used to ensure smooth operation. If you are willing and able to re-lubricate to keep the gears free of the dust and dirt that is commonly attracted to lubricants like this then you will be fine.
If you check the movements on the Kardan you will find that there is no lubricant as Linhof uses dis-similar metals which are self lubricating. That is why an allen wrench is supplied with the cameras so the user can adjust the tension and feel to their own liking.
But, again, to each his own.
Personally I would rather go into the field with an all metal L shaped camera with no image of focus shift that folds to about the size of a hard back book and opens to a 20" monorail and uses lenses from 35mm up - 65mm up on flat boards.
But then you don't seem to like this camera - the TK so agian, to each his own.
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