Edge fogging on large prints.

[AndrewHall]

Hi All,
Anybody had problems with a yellow edge fog in Ilford MG FB Classic on a roll? (42" wide)
The first few on the roll were perfectly white right up to the edges, then I noticed a yellow fog/stain appearing along the edges.
I changed all the chemistry (Dev, stop, fix and hypo) and the problem persists. I'm using Arista print developer diluted at 1:9.
I figured if the paper was fogged, then the outer parts, that is, the first prints would be most affected.

[bob carnie]

I bought a roll of the new Classic 42 inch x 100 fr cut it in half and have seen no issues..

In fact I have been using Ilford Fiber base in my Darkroom since 1991 and over 25 years have never, and I mean never
seen an issue with their product.. small , medium or roll product.
I go through quite a bit of product for my clients and I have stuck with their product line because it is so consistent.

Fog would darken not yellow I would think.... Yellowing may be due to insufficient fix or fresh fix... but you seem to have done fresh chemical.

You can touch base with Ilford.. and send them samples of your problems , they actually are very detailed in customer service and any problem they
will try to help you with.

[AndrewHall]

Thanks for the reply Bob. I've also been using Ilford paper since the 1980's and never come across a quality issue. I figured it would be something I'd missed or done wrong.
I'll keep looking at my process..

[jp]

I think you may be having a fixing issue. A light fogging issue would create gray/black marks in the shape of light beams.
Perhaps use TF5 fixer which works quick and does not require a hypo eliminator bath.

[AndrewHall]

Thanks JP, I'll give that a try.

[Drew Wiley]

What very likely happened is that you didn't get the edges of the paper consistently submerged during fixing. The symptoms certainly suggest this.

[bob carnie]

I did not even ask how you are processing these prints, in my darkroom I use super sized trays so Drews point may be valid if you are having issues with getting chemicals on paper fast and completely.

Really hard to make big prints by hand, when the paper ends up being like a wet noodle that you have to manipulate without screwing up.... I actually charge my clients for paper and make them pay out of pocket as if not I really would not be able to charge for this service enough to make profit.
I have been re evaluating my position with silver gelatin paper and how I charge due to the many issues that can occur when trying to do this in large scale.
I feel your pain Andrew and I hope you can solve this.

bob

[AndrewHall]

First, thanks to all who have replied so quickly, I love this forum!
I am rolling my prints through Cesco 40 x 30 trays, filled with about 45 liters of chemical each, which gives about a 3" depth of liquid. With the Ilford 42" wide roll there is still about 1" either side.
My image area is about 38" x 56" for a full frame 35mm negative. I leave about 6" handling room at each end of the print.
I'm printing onto a level baseboard on the floor of my darkroom, with the paper held down with weights all round. I'm using a 50mm Rodagon N, (but I wish I had a 'G'.) on a Beseler 45MXT enlarger.
After exposure the paper is then rolled through the chemicals, which seem adequately deep, but I could be wrong.
I suspected it might be a fix issue, so this morning I dumped all my stock solutions and remixed everything fresh and rolled my first print through..
Crap. Still yellowish edges along the long side, about 5 mm deep.
I noticed, that even though I'm getting faster, (doing this solo) my developing times were well over 3 minutes. (at 22 degrees)
For the next print, I made sure to keep to 2 minutes, and the edges seem pretty clear. Definitely a huge improvement.
So I'm thinking that may have been the problem.
Gotta watch that timer!

[bob carnie]

Hi Andrew

Ok I get your method now... I think that I would have a very difficult time if I was trying to scroll through 3inches... For scrolling prints, which I do for my lambda fibers , sometimes as long as 13feet by 30 inches I use under the bed plastic containers that are about 20 inches wide x 50inches long , x 10 inches high.
I too use about 45 litres per container but the depth of chemicals is about 7 inches... We Immerse the whole roll into the developer completely covering 3/4 of the roll and start scrolling, obviously using gloves.
the roll is pretty rigid in the first min of development and allows for rapid application of chemicals to the paper .. I leave white borders on each end of the roll so only the white rebate is being touched.. I have had many assistants who over a few trys get the process down pat... after the first fix, I then cut out each individual image and put in my monster trays..

My development time is 3min 40 seconds, and I use Ilford Multigrade as it is rather economical and easy to use with these large units of chemistry.

I believe you need to adjust the height of your chemicals as I think you are not getting the paper completely soaked (CHARGED) with chemicals at the critical stage of development.
for the Yellowing it may be that this is the cause - NOT CHARGING ENOUGH FIX WHEN REALLY NEEDED.
And yes some of my less than nimble assistants get yellowing( WE SOON SOLVE THIS ISSUE) and I truly believe its the depth of chemical and getting the paper CHARGED.

Bob

[Michael Wesik]

Hi All,
Anybody had problems with a yellow edge fog in Ilford MG FB Classic on a roll? (42" wide)
The first few on the roll were perfectly white right up to the edges, then I noticed a yellow fog/stain appearing along the edges.
I changed all the chemistry (Dev, stop, fix and hypo) and the problem persists. I'm using Arista print developer diluted at 1:9.
I figured if the paper was fogged, then the outer parts, that is, the first prints would be most affected.

How far into the paper does it go? I've experience a thin - up to an inch wide - band of yellow staining along the edges of Ilford Classic and Warmtone papers. My understanding is that it's sulphur staining caused by the sodium sulphite in the developer leaching sulphur from your water into the print. This will be dependent on where you live and the fluctuations with your water table which are notoriously bad in Vancouver, where I live, over the winter. Using distilled water should eliminate the problem. Even then, the staining has no effect on archival quality. I've also found that sulphide and selenium toning remove the stain.

Hope that helps,

Michael