Black and White book printing, what is the best quality option?

[Larry Kellogg]

Larry, does the publisher have a web site to look at? Thanks.

Yes, check out Conveyor Arts:

http://www.conveyorarts.org

[jnantz]

Yes, I'll try to figure out which three or four videos illustrate the process and post them. It may take me a little while.

To be honest, I don't see myself hand sewing any books. I don't have the time to do that. I'd rather concentrate on photographing and darkroom printing in order to create the next book.

Besides, I want to be able to produce runs of 50-200 books, and this small press makes that possible. The machines they have to sew, trim, glue, and bind books are massive and of high quality, leading to quality results that I would not be able to match by hand.

I'll be ordering another run of books and putting them up for sale. If people want to see the quality that can be produced by a small press, they can order a copy. :-)

Some people on this thread told me that it was not possible to print a book of duotones unless I had deep pockets. I was delighted to find out that this is not true.

hi larry

sounds like a plan !
( and fun ! )

[Paul Cunningham]

I find their prices to be quite reasonable, if one can commit to a small quantity, (versus Blurb). They are however more "book like" than say the producers of wedding albums.

I ordered their paper samples and the quality looks nice.

[Larry Kellogg]

I find their prices to be quite reasonable, if one can commit to a small quantity, (versus Blurb). They are however more "book like" than say the producers of wedding albums.

I ordered their paper samples and the quality looks nice.

I agree, I think the prices are reasonable. I like the fact that they're focused on printing books for artists. They're willing to work with you to produce a unique book, much more so than any of the mass market publishers.

With them, you have a lot of freedom regarding the size of the book and choosing the materials that go into making it. I bought black book cloth from Talas and gave it to them to use for the hardcovers.

I picked the 100 pound silk coated paper for printing my photographs, and think the quality of the paper is excellent.

Perfect bound books are a lot cheaper., so perhaps I should have gone that route but wanted to see what it was like to produce a hardcover.

I'm in process of putting in another order. I'm happy that I can order just twenty five books at a time and think it is more than fair.

I will upload the videos from the factory tour! I've been traveling and am just getting back into the swing of things.

Let me know if you get a book printed!

[evanbaines]

I don't post on here super often, but I've been following this thread with interest as I too am looking to publish in the 50ish book range and have been dissatisfied with most of the options out there. I just got a sample from http://www.puritanpress.com/ of their digital tritones, which I'm made to understand are produced on an HP Indigo retrofitted with custom gray inks. I'm really impressed with the results, which surpass anything I've seen from digital offset for B&W. Their price comes in between regular digital offset and traditional duotones, closer to the former.

No relation to the company, but they are who I'm almost certainly going to use.

V/R
-E

[Paul Cunningham]

I just got a sample from http://www.puritanpress.com/ of their digital tritones, which I'm made to understand are produced on an HP Indigo retrofitted with custom gray inks.
-E

Evan, thanks for the post. Were you able to order samples via their website, or did you talk with them? Thanks.

[Ted R]

I have a question for the original poster.

I sympathise with your wish to not become a computer operator, and your dissatisfaction with ink-jet prints. About your experience with the Epson 3880 that you discarded as unsatisfactory, were you using the "standard" Epson black and white inks and printing system, or were you using something not originated with Epson such as Quadtone RIP and Piezography?

Also, has the small-run book printing project concluded to your satisfaction? I read with interest that this originated with an ICP course, I wonder if it is something they might repeat, have you any information? (they are relocating right now).

[Larry Kellogg]

I have a question for the original poster.

I sympathise with your wish to not become a computer operator, and your dissatisfaction with ink-jet prints. About your experience with the Epson 3880 that you discarded as unsatisfactory, were you using the "standard" Epson black and white inks and printing system, or were you using something not originated with Epson such as Quadtone RIP and Piezography?

Also, has the small-run book printing project concluded to your satisfaction? I read with interest that this originated with an ICP course, I wonder if it is something they might repeat, have you any information? (they are relocating right now).

Hello Ted,

Thanks for the reply. I was using the original Epson inks. I suppose I could have messed around with Quadtone RIP and piezography but I don't think I would have gotten the quality that I got from working with a professional printing company.

I just received my follow-on order of fifty books from Conveyor Book Arts. I only have good things to say about the quality of the duotone printing, the sewn binding, the hard cover with the cloth wrap, the cover jacket, the whole package. If you want to see it, I'll sell you a copy for $40 plus shipping. ;-) The economics of book publishing are quite difficult, as you will learn if you try to produce a book for publication.

The ICP school has not moved yet, only the gallery space, as far as I know. Here is the website for the school:

https://www.icp.org/school

This is the website for Conveyor Editions, the book publisher I worked with:

http://www.conveyoreditions.com

and the page where you can book a consultation to discuss your book:

http://www.conveyoreditions.com/appointments/

I'm not sure when they'll be teaching another class at ICP. I'll ask for you, and post on this thread. It will probably be in the Fall. I would suggest learning InDesign, as that is the industry standard tool that is used to design books.

[Paul Cunningham]

Larry, perhaps you could post a picture of your book so that we can judge its cover. :-)


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[Larry Kellogg]

I don't post on here super often, but I've been following this thread with interest as I too am looking to publish in the 50ish book range and have been dissatisfied with most of the options out there. I just got a sample from http://www.puritanpress.com/ of their digital tritones, which I'm made to understand are produced on an HP Indigo retrofitted with custom gray inks. I'm really impressed with the results, which surpass anything I've seen from digital offset for B&W. Their price comes in between regular digital offset and traditional duotones, closer to the former.

No relation to the company, but they are who I'm almost certainly going to use.

V/R
-E

Hello Evan,

Are you following through with your project? Conveyor Book Arts also uses an HP Indigo. I don't think any retrofitting is required, you just swap out the inks for the black and gray inks, in the case of the duotone printing Conveyor did for me. The inks are in aerosol spray cans and take about thirty seconds to change. We toured the factory, it was the highlight of the class.

I think the real advantage of duotone printing, or tritones, is that you cannot get any color shifts because you're not printing with color inks, LOL. Conveyor tried for six months with CMYK and were never happy with the output for black and white photographs, so they gave up and went to duotones. The masks? will shift slightly from page to page, so that's why you get color shifts, it's basically unavoidable. The whole world wants color, so that's why most places only print color, because they don't want to deal with the setup costs of printing some other way.

The real issue is that you have to trust the press to do the separations of your files and come up with an output that makes you happy, in terms of contrast. For small runs, it's not economical to have the photographer approve the run on-press, as is done in large printing houses. So, you have to rely on proofs when working with a small printing house. Not really a big deal, but it might take a few go arounds with proofs to get it right.