Bellows Material - replacement on a Toyo 45A

[hoffy]

Greetings all,

OK, Maybe I am being a bit paranoid here as I am new to this all, but I thought I would ask a quick question in regards to a replacement Bellows I bought on ebay for a new to me Toyo 45A that I purchased.

Background - I bought the camera just recently full in the knowledge that it did require a bellows repair. Before I finalised the camera purchase, I did my research and found that a particular bellows found in ebay seemed to be the best on offer, apart from a genuine Toyo one. This was based on feedback as well as a couple of blog articles I have read.

Anyhow, I am in the final stages of the installation of the bellows and have been checking for light leaks. While the bellows is totally 100% pinhole free, I have noticed that if I run my LED torch against the material, I can see the torch move. This is checking with my head under a dark cloth, in my darkroom.

Is this typical for non vinyl/leather bellows material? Am I being paranoid or do I have a concern?

Cheers

[Jim C.]

If you see the torch light I would be concerned about fogging during exposure.
All the bellows I have are totally light tight when checked with a LED flashlight
against the outside surface of the bellows.They may have changed the material
used to make the bellows, if you can, you should ask for a return and replacement.

[Bob Salomon]

"seemed to be the best on offer, apart from a genuine Toyo one. This was based on feedback as well as a couple of blog articles I have read."

Which helps to prove that the internet isn't always the best source of information. A proper bellows would not do what this one does. Best is to see if they will take it back and then go buy the Toyo bellows. If they won't then throw it out and but the Toyo bellows.

[Jim Graves]

Since you're in the final stages, finish the installation, load up some film, put the holder in the camera, put a lens on with the shutter closed, take it outside on a sunny day, extend the bellows fully and remove the dark slide for from 5 to 20 minutes, replace the dark slide, then develop the film.

That should give you an answer as to whether enough light is getting through to the film to fog it.

[hoffy]

Thanks for the replies thus far.

Jim C, I must admit that the particular seller has very good feedback and they have sold a lot of these replacement bellows (for this camera, as well as others). I would have thought, considering how particular LF photographers are, that any issues would have shown in ebay feedback and negative comments on the various forums on the net. I have contacted the seller and am waiting on their response. I certainly don't want to drag their name through the mud, especially if I am being overly cautious.

Jim Graves, yes, that is something to do/consider. I am thinking of a way for me to do this without having to do the final adhesive taping or gluing. I'd also probably process and fix an un-exposed sheet as a reference.

Cheers

[hoffy]

Update - I am in dialog with the seller who is being very accommodating and courteous about the issue. I'll keep it mum until we sort out a few things as by no means do I want to soil the sellers good name.

[Jim Graves]

Hope it works out for you.

I'm sure there might have been some raised eyebrows out there about my suggestion to test the bellows outside.

But LEDs are very bright ... if you go into a dark room with a mirror and put a small LED flashlight inside your mouth against your cheek you will be able to see light through your cheek and follow its movement ... and I'm pretty sure your cheek tissue is sufficiently light tight enough to protect film.

So, I'm betting that your bellows would work fine ... then again, I'd sure check it in actual conditions.

[hoffy]

I followed through with the test Jim. I temporarily assembled the camera. I also put some gaffer tap around the front standard to ensure that there was no light leaks on the join as the bellows are not yet glued in. During the exposure, I also wrapped the front and back standard with a spray jacket - again to try and avoid any light leaks from the joins.

OK, so a holder was loaded with 2 sheets of Arista EDU Ultra 100 film and the dark slide pulled on the bellows side sheet. I then let the camera sit in the sun (with a reading of 1/125 between F11 and F16) for 30 minutes. Both sheets were processed in Rodinal 1:50 for 7 minutes. The sheet that was exposed to the bellows has some fogging to it compared to the control sheet. I can see the frame lines clearly.

While I do understand that 30 minutes is a long time and I would hope that in general use from dark slide out to dark slide in should be less then 5 minutes, I does show that there is light to cause fogging.

When I get a chance (might not be until next week), I'll scan the sheets and do a rough density check.

Cheers

[hoffner]

Hoffner to hoffy: send the bellows back for refund. Chances are the manufacturer is probably not even aware of the flow in their material and can be grateful to you that you told them. It makes no sense to use bellows that flawed. They can probably easily use a correct material, once they know about it.

[hoffy]

Hoffy to Hoffner: The seller is fully aware of my initial concerns and have already offered a full refund! They are as concerned as I am and have already done some checking of their own and have confirmed similar behaviour (with the torch check).

Cheers