Commissionned new lenses, foolish ?

[John Z.]

I am reading this thread and hoping someone eventually can make a 600 mm Dagor or Protar lens; I would certainly be a customer. It may be a complex undertaking, but I am sure that it could be done with the right resources.

It is interesting that Dave B. used an analogy of the auto industry to suggest you could not enter a field without massive resources and organization, but an entrepreneur in California has brought to market the Tesla electric car in the past two years, which is revolutionary. Admittedly, it was a very wealthy person, but it just shows what passion and commitment can do (and assistance from an established car company in England-Lotus). I still am amazed that the big 3 car companies are so slow to innovate and bring new products to market, wheras dreamers with passion can!

[C. D. Keth]

I still am amazed that the big 3 car companies are so slow to innovate and bring new products to market, wheras dreamers with passion can!

Unfortunately for the average person, the larger a company is, the more rigid and slower to change their business plan is.

[Jim Galli]

I always get tickled when an old thread get's resurrected and I'm reading along and come across what I said 2+ years ago. I think this is a solution looking for a problem. I just opened a box that came in the mail today that had an 8 3/8" lens that will cover 16X18". It cost me $58. Sorry, I just don't have a need.

[Kirk Fry]

John Z

"an entrepreneur in California has brought to market the Tesla electric car"

The Tesla is a lot of HOT AIR. When R and T road tests it on their track the car will be brought to "market". Sorry about the detour, I coundn't let that one go. I agree with Jim, the world does not need another 600 mm for ULF. (It does need an all eletric car run by solar power).

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

the world does not need another 600 mm for ULF.

Agreed. There are quite a few 24"/600mm process lenses floating around that cover ULF formats just fine and can be had for a relative song (barrel mount APO Artars, APO Ronars, APO Nikkors, APO Germinars, etc.). If you want something smaller, lighter, multicoated and in a modern shutter, the excellent 600mm Fujinon-C is a bargain in new ULF lenses.

However, nobody here said anything about making yet another 600mm ULF lens. What the world does need (IMHO) is shorter ULF lenses in the 210mm - 360mm range that are compact, affordable (by ULF standards) and capable of covering 85 - 95 degrees. 30 year old used Computars that fit this description are going for outrageous prices on eBay on the rare occasions when one turns up for auction. A 240mm Germinar-W - that doesn't even cover anything bigger than 8x10 (with movement) recently went or over $1600 on eBay. Check Glennview's price on his 305mm Computar "mystery lens" ($3300) to get an idea what some people think such a lens is worth.

Kerry

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

Kerry:
This thread has evolved from an interesting discussion of the technical, legal and business aspects of building free space optical systems, something with which I am modestly familar to a personal one discussing Michael and his character, a subject about which I know nothing. At this point I think it is time for me to get off the train.

Dave,

Sorry about that. I did try to suggest alternatives to some of the obstacles you presented, but ultimately I agree it would not be easy to pull off. At some point, whether or not it gets done comes down to who's doing the doing. With the TMAX 400 ULF program, Michael proved he had the stick-to-itness to accomplish what others said was impossible. That doesn't mean this is a slam dunk, but I think the right person is on the job.

As I said earlier, if he can succeed in building very low cost, high quality ULF lenses I will be among his customers.

Nobody said they would be "very low cost". When talking ULF, very few things qualify as "very low cost". To me, it seems Michael's goal is to produce a lens that is more affordable than current alternatives that will allow more people to get into ULF photography without taking out a second mortgage. I also think he's targeting a market segment (wide or semi wide angle lenses for ULF) not currently being served by other current manufacturers. Yes, the new 550mm and 1100mm Schneider Fine Art XXL lenses are fabulous, but they are also ~$5000 each and are longer and cover more than many people need/want. It seems to me that there is a huge gap for new ULF lenses of shorter focal length that are compact, reasonably affordable and readily available. I won't speak for Michael, but I believe it is that gap he is targeting.

Kerry

[Michael Mutmansky]

I won't speak for Michael, but I believe it is that gap he is targeting.

Kerry

This is also the specific gap that I alluded to in the review of the Schneider 550XXL lens this past spring. WHile there is a need for lenses that cover 20x24, and the 550XXL is a great lens for that application, it is expensive for a 7x17 shooter to be considering, and the rear element is large enough to cause some problems with some cameras.

This is where I see the real market for ULF lenses, and I am hopeful that Schneider will enter that market with a lower cost lend that competes with the Computar-style lenses that are being used currently. I see a real value for lenses like that in 180mm, 210 or 240mm and 300mm focal lengths. These will work for 8x10 and up contact printers primarily.

---Michael Mutmansky

[John Z.]

Although I did find a 240mm Computar and also a 10 3/4 inch Dagor, both for under 300 dollars each. Both cover 11x14 format with room to spare. The real expensive lenses are the 305mm Computar, or any Protar over 300mm.

Just curious; if someone made a Dagor or Protar equivalent today, could you use they name, or is it trademarked?

[Lee Hamiel]

As of now the mark for Dagor appears to be a dead mark in the USA as filed by Schneider

See:

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?...ate=plpgva.2.1

[Lee Hamiel]

I have to add that this was a quick search & that this is in no way a legal opinion as to the validity of the mark for "Dagor" but rather what I found quickly based on my normal search parameters.