This is going to be hard ...

[swmcl]

but I'll try to give it a go.

I realise that this forum will have any number of 'religious fanatics' - religious about LF and film that is ... but I am on a bit of an edge. A "Do I, or don't I ?" kind of edge.

Given the current state of the industry - the new Harman papers, the fall of manufacturers, the slight increase in take up in analog photography etc, etc. would you recommend investing into a darkroom of more serious dimensions ?

In another way, can the digital printing world really produce an archive print ? Is it only a matter of time ?

I think the archivability is the only real issue that might separate the analogue and digital worlds to be honest. To the ordinary person off the street I'm sure that the digital simulation is good enough and quite frankly, they probably assume it is digital. I'm not sure they value analogue. Museum curators value longevity. There is no argument from the analogue side but are these curators happy with digital ?

So. Please just the cold hard facts. Try to keep the belief systems at bay !

Let's say a figure of 15 - 20k for the darkroom cost - that should keep some emotions out of it! Would you do it ?

I guess at that figure you'd want to be getting a return on investment even if that return were to take 5 - 8 years to be realised so that means making it a hired darkroom.

I'm thinking its all a bit much really but I'd value some insight especially if you think there is a niche market or product that can be gained through the darkroom process.

Cheers !

Steve

[Darin Boville]

Do whatever you and your work requires. Museum curators won't hinge their decision to acquire or exhibit based on inkjet vs traditional.

You do your thing and let them worry about their thing.

--Darin

[Jeff Dexheimer]

I put together a darkroom for under $500. I print up to 16x20. It would have cost me at least $2000 to do that digitally

[lenser]

I'm not qualified to speak to the archival qualities of digital, so I will only say that I have four enlargers that I hope to soon install in a production darkroom with two sinks and an attached work room for mounting, spotting, etc. It may or may not happen, but I want it and my soul needs it. I personally simply love the analog work and find none of the joy in digital work. Just my opinion and nothing judgmental about digital...simply my response to the two worlds.

[MDR]

Regarding the costs of a darkroom they are much lower than your estimate of 15-20k one thing the digital revolution has done is lowered the prices of pre-owned darkroom equipment a good enlarger can be had for hundreds instead of thousands of dollars. In the end the important thing is what you prefer and which workflow you like better. Curators prefer archival processes but if the photographer is important enough or the work good enought they care a lot less.

[swmcl]

Guys,

I realise the costs of buying darkroom gear has been lowered. But if you start with a negative larger that 4x5 things are a bit different. Especially when the only options are to buy in from overseas. I think I've got a snowflakes chance of finding a good enlarger for 5x7 or 8x10 in Aus. These enlargers are also a real pain in the vertical format because of the height issues. So that means a horizontal format machine. Do you know how difficult that is to find in Aus ??!!

I have been given a lowered price for an enlarger in the UK but we are talking 10 - 12k after shipping and taxes.

Its getting so expensive it needs a business case. It is going beyond the personal 'thing'.

:-)

[bob carnie]

Build the darkroom, buy lots of paper for printing and go for it .

Guys,

I realise the costs of buying darkroom gear has been lowered. But if you start with a negative larger that 4x5 things are a bit different. Especially when the only options are to buy in from overseas. I think I've got a snowflakes chance of finding a good enlarger for 5x7 or 8x10 in Aus. These enlargers are also a real pain in the vertical format because of the height issues. So that means a horizontal format machine. Do you know how difficult that is to find in Aus ??!!

I have been given a lowered price for an enlarger in the UK but we are talking 10 - 12k after shipping and taxes.

Its getting so expensive it needs a business case. It is going beyond the personal 'thing'.

:-)

[Laura_Campbell]

Guys,

I realise the costs of buying darkroom gear has been lowered. But if you start with a negative larger that 4x5 things are a bit different. Especially when the only options are to buy in from overseas. I think I've got a snowflakes chance of finding a good enlarger for 5x7 or 8x10 in Aus. These enlargers are also a real pain in the vertical format because of the height issues. So that means a horizontal format machine. Do you know how difficult that is to find in Aus ??!!

I have been given a lowered price for an enlarger in the UK but we are talking 10 - 12k after shipping and taxes.

Its getting so expensive it needs a business case. It is going beyond the personal 'thing'.

:-)

Contact Gordon Undy at Point Light Gallery in Sydney. He may be able to provide a lead or two on finding LF enlargers in Australia. Hope this helps.

[brucetaylor]

Its getting so expensive it needs a business case. It is going beyond the personal 'thing'.

If it's beyond "personal" and needs a business case to justify the cost, then you need to build a business case. That will require hard research, not opinions from the likes of us. What you're talking about is return on investment, ROI. Are you currently selling your work through galleries or privately in sufficient volume to justify a $20k darkroom build? Is this work that you currently farm out to others? If it is, how many dollars do you need to invest in each print (printing, framing) to make your sale item (I am assuming your labor is not free, you need to get paid). Take that number and multiply by anticipated (from some sort of sales history) sales numbers. That's your cost whether you do it or you pay someone else. After expenses (paper, frames, etc) does that number produce the financial return you want for the darkroom and/or digital investment?

If you're not an established artist currently selling work then I don't think you can make a business case. It's just a hopeful guess, do it or do not. Without being too harsh, if you're not established and you are trying to sell your artwork to cover or defray your darkroom expense just don't figure the money is going to come back to you from print sales. Who knows, you might be a star, but 99.9% are not.

Then there is the whole issue of mixing art and commerce. How do you feel about it? If you want your work to make back a $20k investment in a reasonable period if time you're going to need to be hitting the commerce side hard. Is that what you want? I'm not making any judgements either way, I don't have a horse in the race.

I will say that from my own personal place that art and commerce do not mix. I do both, and they need to stay separate for me to be happy doing each one. YMMV, my 2 cents.

[Dan Dozer]

I converted my old 8 x 10 Kodak 2D camera into a horizontal enlarger (and can still use the camera also). I already had the camera, found a used cold light head for about $200, used materials laying around in the garage for the base and frame, cut the septum out of an old wooden 8 x 10 film holder for my negative holder, and found a 300mm Rodenstock lens on the auction site for about $50. Total cost was under $300.

Guys,

I realise the costs of buying darkroom gear has been lowered. But if you start with a negative larger that 4x5 things are a bit different. Especially when the only options are to buy in from overseas. I think I've got a snowflakes chance of finding a good enlarger for 5x7 or 8x10 in Aus. These enlargers are also a real pain in the vertical format because of the height issues. So that means a horizontal format machine. Do you know how difficult that is to find in Aus ??!!

I have been given a lowered price for an enlarger in the UK but we are talking 10 - 12k after shipping and taxes.

Its getting so expensive it needs a business case. It is going beyond the personal 'thing'.

:-)