Want to get into LF and looking for input

[seven10]

Hi, I'm a medium format shooter primarily and I have been really interested in jumping into LF for architecture and landscapes because of the amount of movements LF cameras offer.

From what I have read around the forums already it seems like I really should consider a monorail setup when shooting architecture and I'd just like some input on the setups I've been considering. Ideally I'd like to have a somewhat light setup to be able to hike with, but I'm no stranger to hiking with 25lbs+ of MF gear for days.

So far I'm considering the following used cameras; a Sinar Norma, Horseman 450, or spending much more and getting a Toyo VX125. The Norma seems to be highly recommended, but how is the speed of setup and tear down? I can't seem to find much on the Horseman, but the prices used make it an attractive option. The Toyo seems like it's a great blend of field camera weight and monorail movements, though I can't find a lot of information on how it actually is.

What one should I consider most or are their other cameras I should look at? Whichever camera I get I'd like to start with probably a 75mm & 90mm lens and keep my budget for body, film holders, lens, loupe, anything I'm missing at or under $3,000.

Thanks,

Justin

[gregmo]

I have a Horseman 450 LE. Its not very heavy, but is very sturdy with geared movements. I'm pretty young & fit so a few extra camera lbs doesn't matter to me. You will need a recessed lens board for the wider lenses. I have a 35mm recessed board for my 90mm Caltar ll-n. Add a dark cloth to your buy list and a separate lens board for each lens.
I have a backpack from photo backpacker & it allows me to keep the camera in one piece for transporting, so set up is quick.

[Luis-F-S]

I'd consider the Norma or a Sinar F2. I have the F2 and it's a great camera though a bit larger and probably more "delicate" than the Norma. I think you can get the F2 pretty reasonable. You can get bag bellows for it, the reflex bino viewer which is quite handy, extra standards, etc. I used the 90 more than the 72 when I was shooting architecture. I have a complete Sinar F2 system with 7 lenses (47, 58, 65, 75, 90 115 & 180) that I used for architecture and have not used it for probably 15 years. Pitty, someday I'll probably get rid of it. Good luck!

[John Kasaian]

Get a Calumet 400 and a used 90mm SA or similar from Rodenstock, Fuji, Nikon, or Ilex/Caltar. I was looking at Keh Camera's prices and that kit should run you less than $400, more than enough to buy film and holders and still be under budget.
Then play with it.
That friend, will tell you a lot about if LF is for you and what sort of gear you'll eventually want to settle on.

[agregov]

Given you're new to 4x5, it might not be critical you start with a camera with geared movements, but rather focus on something light as you seem to prefer to be fairly mobile. If the camera is a pain to move around, you may be discouraged in using it.

The real advantage (IMO) of monorails is geared movements. But they can be heavy. Often the Sinars are used more for studio work than in the field--though you can totally make it work if you want. I started with a Tachihara for my first 4x5 and after my first use, I knew I'd needed to move to a camera with more solid movements. With field cameras, the standards can be "floppy" which are really annoying for precise architectural work. That said, I loved my Tachihara because it was super light (~3.5 pounds), had full movements and had no problem with lenses from 90mm to 240mm in my kit. It was a super camera to learn on. I now use an Arca F Field Compact (with Orbix) and while all the movements aren't officially geared, they are very precise. It's a super field camera but spendy new.

One possible direction is to start with a light, relatively inexpensive field camera, and then if you really enjoy 4x5 invest in a Arca, Ebony non folding camera or similar. Richard Sexton offers some interesting thoughts on the advantages of a non folding view camera for architecture. Worth reading.

There was a Robert White Ebony for sale recently that you might consider. It has very limited movements but rise/fall is by far the most used movement for architecture along with axial tilt. It would be a high quality starter and may fit your budget. Link

Good luck.

[Drew Bedo]

Moving "up" to LF is not the same as moving from 35mm to MF. There is more to it than learning to controle a new camera and compose in a new format.

My advice is to start with a relativly low investment in used gear and see how you like dealing with the whole creative process.

Watever you decide, let us know and post a few images.

[Alan Gales]

If you live in the United States the best bang for your buck is arguably the Sinar. There are of course cheaper monorails but there is just so much used Sinar gear on the market that it's pretty easy to find whatever you are looking for. If you want light weight the Norma or F2 as mentioned above are great choices.

If you would rather start out with a cheaper camera to get your feet wet that's not a bad idea. By buying used at a fair price you will get most of your money back if you later decide to sell and upgrade to something else. Just consider any money you lose as a cheap rental fee.

As far as set up goes, it depends on how much you break a monorail down for transporting to location. I keep my Sinar P all together with a lens mounted, hanging upside down in a plastic Calumet case. Set up is super fast this way. Some people remove the lens and bellows and turn the standards sideways for carrying in a backpack. I have heard of others going further and removing the standards from the rail.

[seven10]

Thanks for all the input, I'm pretty sure I'll stick with LF, but I definitely need time to learn and experiment. The only movements I've been able to use in the past were a couple degrees of shift on my Mamiya 645 setup. Rather than get the tilt-shift adapter for my RZ67 and be limited to small amount of movement I figured it would be better to put that money toward an LF setup.

As far as the Sinar F2 is concerned, is it much less durable than the Norma or P2? I saw some mixed feedback on here about it, which was why I wasn't really considering it originally.

[Andrew O'Neill]

Get a Calumet 400 and a used 90mm SA or similar from Rodenstock, Fuji, Nikon, or Ilex/Caltar. I was looking at Keh Camera's prices and that kit should run you less than $400, more than enough to buy film and holders and still be under budget.
Then play with it.
That friend, will tell you a lot about if LF is for you and what sort of gear you'll eventually want to settle on.

That is sound advice by John. That is how I entered LF.

[Alan Gales]

As far as the Sinar F2 is concerned, is it much less durable than the Norma or P2? I saw some mixed feedback on here about it, which was why I wasn't really considering it originally.

The Norma was replaced with the P series and F series cameras. From what I have read the P stands for perfection and the F stands for field. The P series is a heavy all geared studio camera and the F series is a much lighter weight model. Of the P's, some people prefer the P and some the P2. The F2 is the latest and best of the F series.

So to answer your question, yes, the P series is heavier duty but also much heavier in weight. I own a P and I have also owned an F that I parted out and kept the parts that I wanted. The cool thing about Sinar is that you can mix parts amongst the different models.

I have never had the opportunity to play with a Norma. From what I have read it is also heavier duty than the F2 but I don't know what a Norma weighs.