Fomapan 100, (semi) stand development to fight reciproke failure ?

[Cor]

In a recent thread I vented the idea that reciproke failure of Fomapan kicks in much sooner than expected, and got conformation on it.

To be able to use my left Fomapan stock (or get rid of it) I thought about the following option:

Suppose I would process my Fomapan as (semi) stand in PyrocatHD, would that work to lift the shadow densities to acceptable levels ?

As I understand (semi) stand development: it works on locally exhausting developer: highlight areas are using developer up quickly and come to a halt whereas shadow regions continue to develop.

If one would use PyrocatHD in combination with VC paper the stain in the highlights act as a softer grade taming highlights even more, a good thing because of the inherent high contrast nature of Fomapan 100.

Or am I on the wrong track: due to the reciproke failure there is no useful shadow density to begin with. And over exposing will only result in more reciproke failure in the shadows and higher contrast.

If this would be a potentially successful approach: what would be a good starting point: time and dilution of Pyrocat and what exact (semi) stand regime?

Thanks in advance,

Best,

Cor

[JeRuFo]

If you already like the highlights, then stand development in combination with longer exposures will give you about the same contrast with more shadow detail, right?

[Scott Davis]

In reciprocity failure conditions, you don't have shadow detail to begin with. One partial solution is to increase your base exposure by rating the film at EI 50 instead of 100. Pyrocat is a better choice than some other pyro developers for doing stand/semi-stand because it doesn't oxidize as fast, it works well in very dilute concentrations, and it is not a speed-reducing developer (unlike say PMK Pyro or ABC Pyro, which typically need you to give between 1-3 extra stops of exposure). Another good option for stand development would be Rodnial. As far as times/temps/dilutions, try Pyrocat HD at 1:1:200, and a base time of 45 minutes, with 5 seconds agitation every 15 minutes. This is just a wild guess at a starting point, based on general experience with Foma films. You will need to do your own tests to confirm and refine this.

In a recent thread I vented the idea that reciproke failure of Fomapan kicks in much sooner than expected, and got conformation on it.

To be able to use my left Fomapan stock (or get rid of it) I thought about the following option:

Suppose I would process my Fomapan as (semi) stand in PyrocatHD, would that work to lift the shadow densities to acceptable levels ?

As I understand (semi) stand development: it works on locally exhausting developer: highlight areas are using developer up quickly and come to a halt whereas shadow regions continue to develop.

If one would use PyrocatHD in combination with VC paper the stain in the highlights act as a softer grade taming highlights even more, a good thing because of the inherent high contrast nature of Fomapan 100.

Or am I on the wrong track: due to the reciproke failure there is no useful shadow density to begin with. And over exposing will only result in more reciproke failure in the shadows and higher contrast.

If this would be a potentially successful approach: what would be a good starting point: time and dilution of Pyrocat and what exact (semi) stand regime?

Thanks in advance,

Best,

Cor

[Cor]

Thanks for the feedback, Scott

Also for a starting point, searching on both APUG and here gives suggestions in similar direction. I'll start shooting at 50 ASA and process in Xtol as well as a sheet in Pyrocat-HD to hopefully compare shadow behavior. In the mean time: more suggestions or experiences most welcome !

best,

Cor

[JeRuFo]

I rate fomapan 100 at EI 40 (but even then rather give it a litlle too much than too little)but usually approach it like I would slide film and place the darkest shadows on -2. The highlight retention is so good that I usually don't worry about them unless it's a very high contrast scene. I develop in XTOL 1+2 for 11 minutes at 21C with one agitation every 30s. The shadows are still very rich but they are hardly ever clipped. I haven't done any real tests with it, but have found this works well for me and my style of shooting. XTOL apparently isn't well suited for stand development, it likes a lot of agitation. I've seen great results with Foma+Rodinal and little agitation, i'm going to give that a try soon.

[Cor]

Hi JeRuFo,

You're results look quite nice, I guess that Xtol 1+2 is kinda compensating, I should give your approach a try!

Thanks,

Cor

[Regular Rod]

In a recent thread I vented the idea that reciproke failure of Fomapan kicks in much sooner than expected, and got conformation on it.

To be able to use my left Fomapan stock (or get rid of it) I thought about the following option:

Suppose I would process my Fomapan as (semi) stand in PyrocatHD, would that work to lift the shadow densities to acceptable levels ?

As I understand (semi) stand development: it works on locally exhausting developer: highlight areas are using developer up quickly and come to a halt whereas shadow regions continue to develop.

If one would use PyrocatHD in combination with VC paper the stain in the highlights act as a softer grade taming highlights even more, a good thing because of the inherent high contrast nature of Fomapan 100.

Or am I on the wrong track: due to the reciproke failure there is no useful shadow density to begin with. And over exposing will only result in more reciproke failure in the shadows and higher contrast.

If this would be a potentially successful approach: what would be a good starting point: time and dilution of Pyrocat and what exact (semi) stand regime?

Thanks in advance,

Best,

Cor

I use this reciprocity chart and have no problems at all with this film by exposing for shadow texture at Zone II and shadow detail at Zone III with the ISO at 100 and develop using either 1:500 Obsidian Aqua for 12 minutes semi-stand or 1:100 510-PYRO for 8.25 minutes semi-stand both at 20 deg. C

Fomapan 100 Classic / Reciprocity Failure Compensation

1 sec 1.9 sec 51 sec 818 sec
2 sec 6 sec 52 sec 837 sec
3 sec 11.6 sec 53 sec 856 sec
4 sec 19 sec 54 sec 875 sec
5 sec 27 sec 55 sec 894 sec
6 sec 36 sec 56 sec 913 sec
7 sec 46 sec 57 sec 932 sec
8 sec 56 sec 58 sec 950 sec
9 sec 68 sec 59 sec 969 sec
10 sec 80 sec 60 sec 987 sec
11 sec 93 sec 61 sec 1005 sec
12 sec 106 sec 62 sec 1023 sec
13 sec 120 sec 63 sec 1041 sec
14 sec 135 sec 64 sec 1059 sec
15 sec 150 sec 65 sec 1077 sec
16 sec 165 sec 66 sec 1094 sec
17 sec 181 sec 67 sec 1112 sec
18 sec 197 sec 68 sec 1129 sec
19 sec 213 sec 69 sec 1146 sec
20 sec 230 sec 70 sec 1164 sec
21 sec 247 sec 71 sec 1180 sec
22 sec 265 sec 72 sec 1197 sec
23 sec 282 sec 73 sec 1214 sec
24 sec 300 sec 74 sec 1230 sec
25 sec 318 sec 75 sec 1247 sec
26 sec 336 sec 76 sec 1263 sec
27 sec 355 sec 77 sec 1279 sec
28 sec 374 sec 78 sec 1294 sec
29 sec 392 sec 79 sec 1310 sec
30 sec 411 sec 80 sec 1326 sec
31 sec 430 sec 81 sec 1341 sec
32 sec 449 sec 82 sec 1356 sec
33 sec 469 sec 83 sec 1371 sec
34 sec 488 sec 84 sec 1386 sec
35 sec 507 sec 85 sec 1401 sec
36 sec 527 sec 86 sec 1415 sec
37 sec 546 sec 87 sec 1429 sec
38 sec 566 sec 88 sec 1444 sec
39 sec 585 sec 89 sec 1458 sec
40 sec 605 sec 90 sec 1471 sec
41 sec 624 sec 91 sec 1485 sec
42 sec 644 sec 92 sec 1499 sec
43 sec 663 sec 93 sec 1512 sec
44 sec 683 sec 94 sec 1525 sec
45 sec 702 sec 95 sec 1538 sec
46 sec 722 sec 96 sec 1551 sec
47 sec 741 sec 97 sec 1563 sec
48 sec 761 sec 98 sec 1576 sec
49 sec 780 sec 99 sec 1588 sec
50 sec 799 sec 100 sec 1600 sec

RR

[Cor]

Thanks Rod,

I played a bit with Obsidian Aqua and Panf (shh 35mm..) maybe it's nice to revisit now with Fomapan !

Best,

Cor

[Cor]

So this weekend I had a bit of time to do an non-scientific test run:

Film was Fomapan100 rated at 50 ASA

Scene was a park nearby with a little stream and wooden bridge, mostly shaded by big trees, sunny weather, and of course the clouds came in when ready to shoot. I based my exposure on the shaded area beneath the bridge, because that is were I wanted detailed shadow area, and I called that my Zone III. It read 4 seconds at f8 so for a Zone V 4 seconds at f16. Taking reciproke failure in account: 12 seconds at f16 (90mm SA), already a demanding scene for Fomapan100.
Exposed 2 sheets.

Control sheet: Processed as I normally do in Xtol 1+1 (actually I mix up Mytol 1+1 but in my hands that behaves the same)

Test sheet: Semi Stand in Combi Plan Tank; First a 3min pre-soak in water, than Pyrocat-HD 1,5+1+200 for 45 min: 1 min agitation and than 10 sec on 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 time point.

Results The Xtol neg had detailed shadows and quite thick highlights: I could obtain an acceptable print on VC grade 1 1/2 (I normally aim at 2 1/2) by dodging the shadow below the bridge for 1/2 a stop.

The Pyrocat-HD neg has bullet proof highlights, tried printing through the highlights at also 1 1/2 and a stop more as the Xtol negative, got a hint of an image, with a good shadow area. I think this negative is a good candidate for a Pt print

So this is obviously just a start, but if I can make some premature conclusions: the shadow areas came on both negatives out on what I wanted (that is at least something), but the semi stand Pyrocat-HD scheme needs to be adapted, there is now to much Pyro stain and silver in the highlights.

The Xtol negative is workable, but the resulting image has a almost IR feel over it, a deviation from the scene as seen. More work to do..

best,

Cor

[Scott Davis]

For the next Pyrocat HD test, try 30 minutes instead. That should go a long way toward taming your highlights.