Cheap light 4x5 camera for architecture.

[htbs]

Hello,

I normally shoot digital small format but I want to change to film. I heard of large format cameras but was always too intimidated by them and I still are. I read up on them a bit but I still have no idea what to look out for when choosing a camera. There aren't that many reviews of large format gear like of small format cameras so I have no idea what camera or lens to get. My main problem is that I have no way of trying a large format camera out. And it seems to me like moving large format gear takes time so I want to get the right gear right away if possible.

I mainly shoot around my town and I travel by foot and train so the camera shouldn't be too big and heavy. A field camera would be perfect but these also don't have as many movements as monorails and they are also more expensive. But then again I don't know if I even need all the movements of a monorail. All I missed from my SLR was perspective correction to correct the falling lines. But since I have no experience with shift lenses or cameras I have no idea how much mm rise I actually need. Monorails are usually bulky but I heard that they can be used outside as well. Are there any small cheap monorails? I could get a calumet cadet wide for 120€ but I am not sure if it wouldn't be better to invest a bit more. My overall budget for camera+lens is around 1000€ but I would be willing to spend that on the body alone if It's really necessary. My main focal length is 35mm on 24x36 but I got recommended to go a bit wider for architecture. There is also a bigger selection of 90mm lenses than ~115mm lenses. I noticed that this section is for cameras. Should I make a seperate thread in the lens section for lens recommendations?

[Halford]

Hi and welcome to the forum

Where are you based? Depending on where you are, I'm sure some kind soul would be willing to show you their gear and let you see how it all fits together.

For easily walkable use you might look at something like a Speed Graphic -- not a lot of movement versatility, but they're pretty cheap and cheerful.

I've just had a bad experience using a monorail for backpacking -- turns out my monorail (a Graflex Graphic View) is unbelievably fiddly and awkward to assemble in the field, but many other (mostly newer) designs are much easier, and many people use their monorails like this just fine. I guess Sinar p series and Arca-Swiss F series would work pretty well (and be lighter than my ancient GV)

Otherwise, lots of modern folding cameras are pretty lightweight and provide reasonable movements - not necessarily cheap though.

I'm sure you'll be able to find something reasonable to get going with for under 1000€.

Best of luck to you :-)

[Tim Meisburger]

I think the above is the best advice. Let us know where you are, and someone nearby can take you out on a weekend and introduce you to the process. Hopefully you can try several cameras, which will give you a feel for what you would like.

[redshift]

Checking them out in person is the best idea. I would give high praise for a Sinar P. The main reason is because all movements are geared and held in place with friction or clamps. All the movements have "zero" indicators so you can get out of trouble and back to zero easily. There is a simple to follow system for focusing when using movements. You can get a nice starter set for well under your price. There are a huge number of options and accessories available that are interchangeable within the brand. It's not at it's best for backpacking but far from difficult.

[Brian Ellis]

I used a Tachihara 4x5 for exterior architecture (among many other things) for several years, it worked fine. There are other relatively light, compact field cameras that have more movements than the Tachihara and that rival a monorail in that respect, e.g. the Chamonix and the Shen Hao. There are several models of each and I don't keep up with the latest model designations but if you search on those names here and Google you should find plenty of information. There also are a lot of reviews of different LF cameras on the home page of this forum.

I photograph a fair amount of architecture though I'm not the pro some here are. But FWIW, the only movements I almost always use are front rise and front tilt, front tilt not so much to alter the plane of focus (the more common purpose with other kinds of photography) but to use when aiming the camera up at the top of the building (when front rise alone is insufficient) and then bringing the front and back parallel to the building.

[Ken Lee]

As they say, we get to pick 2

We always want all 3, as with lenses: best resolution + small + cheap. With work: done fast + done well + done cheaply.

With cameras: cheap + portable + lots of features.

For architecture (interiors particularly) we need to use short lenses, which often necessitates bag bellows.

I'd settle for lots of features and low price, and get a used monorail system camera like a Sinar, Calumet, Cambo, Horseman etc. They will let you use any bellows or lens. They are not as portable as field cameras, but you're not trekking with the camera in the field after all. These cameras are widely available on the used market for modest prices.

It doesn't matter how light the camera is, if when you get it to the shoot it can't do what it needs to do.

[John Kasaian]

Hello,

I normally shoot digital small format but I want to change to film. I heard of large format cameras but was always too intimidated by them and I still are. I read up on them a bit but I still have no idea what to look out for when choosing a camera. There aren't that many reviews of large format gear like of small format cameras so I have no idea what camera or lens to get. My main problem is that I have no way of trying a large format camera out. And it seems to me like moving large format gear takes time so I want to get the right gear right away if possible.

I mainly shoot around my town and I travel by foot and train so the camera shouldn't be too big and heavy. A field camera would be perfect but these also don't have as many movements as monorails and they are also more expensive. But then again I don't know if I even need all the movements of a monorail. All I missed from my SLR was perspective correction to correct the falling lines. But since I have no experience with shift lenses or cameras I have no idea how much mm rise I actually need. Monorails are usually bulky but I heard that they can be used outside as well. Are there any small cheap monorails? I could get a calumet cadet wide for 120€ but I am not sure if it wouldn't be better to invest a bit more. My overall budget for camera+lens is around 1000€ but I would be willing to spend that on the body alone if It's really necessary. My main focal length is 35mm on 24x36 but I got recommended to go a bit wider for architecture. There is also a bigger selection of 90mm lenses than ~115mm lenses. I noticed that this section is for cameras. Should I make a seperate thread in the lens section for lens recommendations?

Welcome! Click on LF Home Page on the blue banner at the top of this page and follow the trail to plenty of LF camera and lens info.
Unless you have a great deal of money to spend, consider this a learning experience. You'll know what movements and lenses you'll actually need by going out and making pictures so start with something cheap, but in good condition and add/upgrade as time passes. A copy of Steve Simmons Using The View Camerais an excellent resource.

[Otto Seaman]

Keep it simple and cheap. A $300 used 90mm >1980s Rodenstock, Fuji, Schneider, or Nikon 4x5 lens is all you need for professional results. Most people try several cameras over a period of time before settling down.

[BrianShaw]

... It doesn't matter how light the camera is, if when you get it to the shoot it can't do what it needs to do.

Indeed. While the notion of a lightweight camera is natural to think of when traveling for LF shooting, architecture is the one genre where I'd be very careful about two issues in exchange for weight: generous movements and ease-of-use with short lenses. For me that has been a Cambo... and I just suck it up and deal with the weight of the camera, the carry box, heavy tripod, and all of the other accoutrement. I've adapted a two-wheeled folding luggage trolley to mitigate some of the effects of bulk/weight... but when I get on site I know I'll not be as constrained as when I use a Graphic for that purpose. Not having a wooden folding camera I can't say for sure, but I think they share some of the limitations of the Graphic.

[htbs]

Wow didn't expect so many replies in such a short time. Thank you!

Hi and welcome to the forum

Where are you based? Depending on where you are, I'm sure some kind soul would be willing to show you their gear and let you see how it all fits together.

For easily walkable use you might look at something like a Speed Graphic -- not a lot of movement versatility, but they're pretty cheap and cheerful.

Thanks and Hello. I heard of the Speed Graphic but I also heard that it has very limited movements. Shift would be really important for me. I just have no idea how much.

I am from Cologne, Germany but when I say try out I mean actually use it for a few days.

I would give high praise for a Sinar P. The main reason is because all movements are geared and held in place with friction or clamps. All the movements have "zero" indicators so you can get out of trouble and back to zero easily. There is a simple to follow system for focusing when using movements. You can get a nice starter set for well under your price. There are a huge number of options and accessories available that are interchangeable within the brand. It's not at it's best for backpacking but far from difficult.

I see the Sinar P and F series recommended a lot. If I decide to go with a monorail I will give it a look.

I used a Tachihara 4x5 for exterior architecture (among many other things) for several years, it worked fine. There are other relatively light, compact field cameras that have more movements than the Tachihara and that rival a monorail in that respect, e.g. the Chamonix and the Shen Hao. There are several models of each and I don't keep up with the latest model designations but if you search on those names here and Google you should find plenty of information. There also are a lot of reviews of different LF cameras on the home page of this forum.

I photograph a fair amount of architecture though I'm not the pro some here are. But FWIW, the only movements I almost always use are front rise and front tilt, front tilt not so much to alter the plane of focus (the more common purpose with other kinds of photography) but to use when aiming the camera up at the top of the building (when front rise alone is insufficient) and then bringing the front and back parallel to the building.

Thanks. I think I would prefer a field camera. I am just not too sure how more convenient and easier to carry they are. After all the camera will be mounted to a tripod anyways.

As they say, we get to pick 2

We always want all 3, as with lenses: best resolution + small + cheap. With work: done fast + done well + done cheaply.

With cameras: cheap + portable + lots of features.

For architecture (interiors particularly) we need to use short lenses, which often necessitates bag bellows.

I'd settle for lots of features and low price, and get a used monorail system camera like a Sinar, Calumet, Cambo, Horseman etc. They will let you use any bellows or lens. They are not as portable as field cameras, but you're not trekking with the camera in the field after all. These cameras are widely available on the used market for modest prices.

It doesn't matter how light the camera is, if when you get it to the shoot it can't do what it needs to do.

That's the. Can't have it all. Like I said I can get a calumet cadet wide for 120€. But I can't find a lot informations on it.

Welcome! Click on LF Home Page on the blue banner at the top of this page and follow the trail to plenty of LF camera and lens info.
Unless you have a great deal of money to spend, consider this a learning experience. You'll know what movements and lenses you'll actually need by going out and making pictures so start with something cheap, but in good condition and add/upgrade as time passes. A copy of Steve Simmons Using The View Camerais an excellent resource.

Thank you. I will do some research myself. I guess I could start with the cadet and a 90mm f/8 lens?

Keep it simple and cheap. A $300 used 90mm >1980s Rodenstock, Fuji, Schneider, or Nikon 4x5 lens is all you need for professional results. Most people try several cameras over a period of time before settling down.

I heard that all large format lenses are good. Is this true? With digital small format I can look at full resolution images and judge the image quality of the lens myself but with large format film it's hard to find any samples to compare the lens quality.