Holy mashed potatoes Batman-Willian Clift printing inkjet?!

[Kirk Gittings]

I'm spinning off this discussion from another thread I started that was about me. I think the new WC exhibit is a game changer.

William Clift printing inkjet? This is the photographic equivalent of Nixon going to China. I am dead serious. William Clift was/is (I know he still does silver) one of the best silver printers I have ever seen. A legend in his own lifetime. I would put him in the top three ever from my personal experience. But think about it. Remember his book "Certain Places" 1987 one of the first quad tone fine art books ever produced. He was renowned for pushing the printers far beyond their experience and producing IMO the finest printed quality book to that date. One problem he said (I heard). In some ways with the book reproductions were too good-he could not produce silver images that were as good (his opinion I heard) as good as the book reproductions and people were ordering prints from the book and were not satisfied. He did not try and make the book reproductions match his silver prints but put all his energy into making the book images the best they could be in that medium. Fast forward to current inkjet and the total control one can exercise.......................its a natural progression.

The ground has shifted under our feet.

[Drew Wiley]

Yeah... and the Canadians think Benedict Arnold was a patriot. Just depends on your perspective -which side of the border you choose to live on. The only time the ground shifts under my feet is when the Hayward or San Andreas Fault slips (and my darkroom is seismically reinforced!)

[bob carnie]

Not so sure Kirk about where you are going with this. But

Salgado is known for amazing silver prints, his last body of work of Genesis I saw last month , one show silver and one show inkjet, printed probably by Europe's
best.

The silver completely blew away the inkjet so IMO the earth has not moved. In his case he should have stuck with what he did best.

BTW Salgados books always had an intensity that his prints do not reveal in person. Which I think can be said for many , many photographers of note.

[Jon Shiu]

Yes, if you look at Ansel Adams work and Edward Weston and Brett Weston, sometimes the book images are more pleasing tonally than some of the original prints.

Jon

[ROL]

...In some ways with the book reproductions were too good-he could not produce silver images that were as good (his opinion I heard) as good as the book reproductions and people were ordering prints from the book and were not satisfied. He did not try and make the book reproductions match his silver prints but put all his energy into making the book images the best they could be in that medium.

This is, and has been, a continuing concern for me with my own work. Unless someone has seen an actual print, and that becoming increasingly problematic, their expectation from other media sources, no matter how completely advised, can be treacherous. I find many of my own GSP's to be kind of "more attractive" in digital production, even with (in spite of?) limited manipulation. (Shhhh! ...maybe we should be meeting anonymously in a church .)

[photobymike]

You guys are a funny read....LOL LOL

[Drew Wiley]

Depends on the vintage, Jon.... EW's early chlorobromide contacts would be hard to replicate in book form without some very expensive quad tone technique. Once
BW hit his stride with Brilliant Bromide, I don't think anything can equal it. Some of his earlier work has been improved in digital reproduction - but using expensive
limited-edition press techniques, not common inkjet. I've also seen plenty of AA's prints up close, and frankly, most of our silver papers are better than what he
had ... it's not particularly difficult to make a "better" silver print in that respect. Of course, for book reproduction he'd make special lower-contrast prints; and I can understand how, if one does not want to duplicate a lot of effort, a digital file could help. The most expensive digital prepress photo setup in the West is down the street,
and I hope to visit them soon - equip clients of mine, but otherwise hired guns for very expensive museum installations, big money artists etc - stuff $ way out of
the league of mere mortals like us, though I might want to partner with them in getting some kind of venue up and running here on the West Coast.

[Drew Wiley]

(Typo)- BW used Seagull Bromide .... (duuh)

[mdm]

I have recently been louping his book, the Namkung book and Gem Southam's book that I recently got, and comapring the halftones to my prints in eboni 6, Piezography Carbon, silver contacts and silver contacts from methodology 3 digital negatives. A contact print is very special and fun to make, but 6 or 7 black ink inkjet prints are much better than any book print can be, quadtone or CMYK. You really need to be a very good printer to better an ordinary sensibly made inkjet, I tried printing some professionally scanned 35mm files in carbon with digital negatives, but gave up because the inkjet I made to proof the digital negative always turned out better.

[Drew Wiley]

Comparing halftone under a loupe???? That ozone hole over the south Pacific must be doing some really strange things.