Rapid Fixer - - TF-4 or Ilford Rapid Fix?

[Cletus]

Maybe I need to go back and re-read my Darkroom Cookbook, but -

What is the advantage of TF-4 over Ilford Rapid Fixer? Any?

Aren't they both essentially the exact same thing, or am I mistaken on this? Is it simply economy, TF-4 is cheaper? I'd sure be interested in some opinions here as I was getting ready make a large chemistry purchase and maybe I need to consider something less expensive than Ilford Rapid Fixer.

[Ken Lee]

Is TF-4 rapid ?

Is Ilford Rapid Fixer alkaline ?

Advantages of alkaline fixers here.

[Cletus]

Those are the questions I think I need to be asking, I'm not sure. And I probably should know that!

I started to tack this question on to an earlier post today about toxicity of DR chemistry, then thought better of it....I really do need to just dig out my copies of Anchell's books and do some reading I guess...

[Gem Singer]

Especially, "The Film Developing Cookbook".

[Cletus]

Thanks Gem - I ended up purchasing both of these books (after you loaned me yours, I decided I needed to have them!) and I just need to dig out the FDCB and do a little brushing up.

[Doremus Scudder]

TF-4 is an alkaline rapid (i.e., ammonium thiosulfate) fixer.
Ilford Rapid Fix and Hypam are slightly acidic rapid fixers.

Both should have similar capacities.

One of the advantage of an alkaline fix is that is washes out faster. This is primarily an advantage when using fiber-base papers. Most recommend that you do not use a stop bath in conjunction with an alkaline fixer. I prefer to use a stop bath for both film and paper, so have standardized on one of the Ilford products.

One danger with alkaline fixers is that carried-over developer can be reactivated and fog or streak film. This is usually no problem, but if there are any light leaks in your darkroom and you develop film in open trays, then perhaps keeping things acid is a better idea (don't ask me how I know this...).

For printing I use Ilford Hypam or Rapid fix 1+9. At this dilution it is close enough to neutral pH as to allow me to transfer prints directly to selenium toner without an intermediate wash or rinse.

As far as economy goes, it depends on your work-flow and the dilutions you use. The 5-liter Hypam from Freestyle is $28 and makes 50 liters at the 1+9 dilution or 25 liters at 1+4. TF-4's dilution recommendation is 1+3; the one-gallon jug costs $30 from Freestyle and makes 4 gallons, or approx. 15 liters of working solution. Figure it out for your situation.

I wash both film and paper longer than needed anyway, so don't worry much about the purportedly shorter wash times achievable with alkaline fixes.

Best,

Doremus

[rich815]

I've used nothing but TF-4 fixer for my films for at least 8-10 years now ever since taking advice about alkaline fixers from Barry Thornton's writing and it works great.

[ROL]

I wash both film and paper longer than needed anyway, so don't worry much about the purportedly shorter wash times achievable with alkaline fixes.

As do I. However, the emulsion in some FB papers, famously and notably some Kentmere, will disintegrate if washed using "normal" wash times. This poses a very specific problem with these papers which can usually be addressed by limiting time for after–developing processes (like toning), using hypo-clearing agents, and watching wash times carefully, as suggested by Ilford–Harman. I've yet to experience emulsion issues with any other papers, having inadvertently washed Oriental for as much as 4 hours .

[Drew Wiley]

I haven't had any issue with current Kentmere papers and my standard hour-long wash time (plus quite a bit longer than that typically, awaiting the end of a work
day, toning, etc). The quality of the coating seemed to improve significantly once Harman took over.

[Cletus]

These are some really good, down-to-earth information and I appreciate the comments - exactly what I was interested in. Doremus, I think you finally clarified this for me, as I never really understood the reasoning with respect to alkaline vs. acidic fixers. Based on what I just read here, I can see no reason to discontinue using the Ilford Rapid Fix - I've never used anything else - and also it's reassuring to hear your good results using it at 1+9 dilution. I've never been able to bring myself to dilute 1+4 and have always wondered whether that practice would "show up" in my prints 10 or more years from now!

ROL - just wanted to say +1 on the Oriental paper too. IMO, the Seagull VC (FB) paper has a nicer surface finish, heavier weight, brighter white base and better Dmax (subjectively speaking) than Ilford MGIV and it costs a little less to boot! Really great paper I think. I'm getting ready to buy some of the graded Oriental on my next order I think. I'm not trying to start a firestorm of paper vs. paper controversy here, just wanted to acknowledge the nice quality of O.S. on this occasion....