Old brass lenses - what was the original finish like?

[Jac@stafford.net]

I am not very much into old brass lenses, so over the many years when I saw one I bought it only if the glass was exceptionally clean, and the brass was fairly clean. As a result I have a couple beautiful looking brass lenses which perform adequately for portraits.

The other day someone said, "Too bad. It looks like they have been polished. A lens that old would have scratches." I was a bit shaken, but then I realized I have no idea what they might have looked like when new.

Finishes may have varied, but does anyone know how the higher end lenses were finished, what the brass looked like?

[ederphoto]

Most of the time just lacquered or finished in a semi-gloss black oil paint .Some were primed before being painted .Some were sanded and buffed after being painted and some not .Some of the most common brass lenses are Darlot and a huge number of Cooke lenses .There's just too many out there to list them here .I've seen brass Veritos and brass Pinkhams and most of the ones we see are painted black .The brass ones are the rarest .And this could go forever ...

[coisasdavida]

Banana extract was widely used to finish brass, it gives it a golden tone.

[IanG]

Vast majority were hot lacquered with a shellac varnish, it's a technique that's been used for many years. Pete Watkins has described how to do it in a thread on this forum, it was a technique he used at work in the 1900's.

Ian

[E. von Hoegh]

I am not very much into old brass lenses, so over the many years when I saw one I bought it only if the glass was exceptionally clean, and the brass was fairly clean. As a result I have a couple beautiful looking brass lenses which perform adequately for portraits.

The other day someone said, "Too bad. It looks like they have been polished. A lens that old would have scratches." I was a bit shaken, but then I realized I have no idea what they might have looked like when new.

Finishes may have varied, but does anyone know how the higher end lenses were finished, what the brass looked like?

I have some rather old things, going back to the 1820s, which retain some (sometimes most) of their original finish, and I get comments like that from time to time. There's something that very few realise - it's possible to use something carefully and respectfully for a vey long time, that item will not retain all the original finish but it will look suspiciously clean to some not-very-careful people. Once upon a time, people knew what quality is - they bought something of high quality, and took care of it!

Assuming something old would have scratches is fallacious.

[John Kasaian]

Vast majority were hot lacquered with a shellac varnish, it's a technique that's been used for many years. Pete Watkins has described how to do it in a thread on this forum, it was a technique he used at work in the 1900's.

Ian

Ahhhh! The good ol' 1900's! I knew them well

[ederphoto]

Lol

[Steven Tribe]

Most lenses have suffered from non-separate storage when not in use - and when removed from the camera are in the danger zone when stored unprotected with other items.
As mentioned, heated barrels and dissolved shellac - plus secret additives - produced a fine and strong protection.

I have telescopes from the 1790's which have almost perfect original finishes - always stored in card cases with shagrin covers - unlike most lenses.

The metal finishing of the brass shows some variation in what the makers considered correct. I can clearly see microscopic "turning" marks under some lenses (market leaders!) with intact lacquer and a "mirror" brass surface was apparently not wanted.

How is this a D-I-Y thread?

[IanG]

How is this a D-I-Y thread?

It might be when we get Pete to describe what's in the shellac mix

We did discuss this subject when we met recently. I'm quite happy y7o experiment as I use shellac on a regular basis as I prefer to french polish rather than use modern aerosol lacqueurs on restorations.

The colour will depend on the type of shellac used, TTH seem to use a darker shellac than the blonde used on some other makes. I will start using it on brass vcamera fittings once I've mastered the technique.

Ian

[goamules]

I am not very much into old brass lenses, so over the many years when I saw one I bought it only if the glass was exceptionally clean, and the brass was fairly clean. As a result I have a couple beautiful looking brass lenses which perform adequately for portraits.

The other day someone said, "Too bad. It looks like they have been polished. A lens that old would have scratches." I was a bit shaken, but then I realized I have no idea what they might have looked like when new.

Finishes may have varied, but does anyone know how the higher end lenses were finished, what the brass looked like?

Like said above, it all depends on how it was treated. I've got a couple of 1860s lenses whose original varnish looks almost new. Your friend doesn't know antique lenses. The varnish protects the brass from scratches, but you'll sometimes see some where the waterhouse slot is. You will see them with splotches from oxidation getting under the varnish, or varnish flaking. Some makers, like voigtlander, had very thin varnish, which can be wiped off over the years from mounting and dismounting the lens from the camera.