Focus accuracy vs speed on 4x5 for studio portraits - rangefinder vs Groundglass

[Kuljit]

I have owned a Sinar Norma era Reflex Magnifier for many decades, never really got along with it much. Now I am rediscovering it's potential. I bought a second one if that says anything. Twice I have dropped and broken the mirror, it's easily replaced, there is a Guy on Ebay who custom cuts the mirrors for me for $30 each. An easy thing to do. Suggestions: Use a fresnel with the Reflex Magnifier. I really think it was designed to work with fresnel. The magnifier works ok to fine focus, takes a bit of use to. A possible issue using the Normas, the bail is easily pulled out when using the magnifier. With the Norma the answer is the elastic band that comes with the Lighthood, remove it and attach it to the Norma Riser Knobs. Adjust the bands so the box stays tight and under tension. Works great. With modern black Sinar the springs in the bail should not require any help as they are much stronger springs. I like Reflex mags, I have one on the TLR above ^^ In fact I just bought the rare 8x10 Sinar Reflex Magnifier, so Yes I have become a fan. This rear view shows the elastic band holding the box tightly against the back of the camera.

4x5 Twin Lens Sinar Norma Binocular Reflex Magnifier by Nokton48, on Flickr

8x10 18x24 Sinar Norma Overhead Shooting Table 165 Norma SA by Nokton48, on Flickr

Thanks Daniel for sharing so much information. This TLR camera is huge, very impressive. I was wondering since you have liked the sinar reflex magnifier, I am thinking of combining something like https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ....html/overview and remove that standard loupe and replace it with a proper 5x or 6x loupe, what are your thoughts on it?

[Dan Fromm]

Thanks Daniel for sharing so much information. This TLR camera is huge, very impressive. I was wondering since you have liked the sinar reflex magnifier, I am thinking of combining something like https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ....html/overview and remove that standard loupe and replace it with a proper 5x or 6x loupe, what are your thoughts on it?

Kuljit, please think before posting. Mr. Unkefer showed you a twin lens reflex camera. You want to use a reflex viewing hood on a normal view camera. Fine, wonderful, but it won't save you from closing the shutter, setting the shutter speed, inserting the film holder, ... Unless you use a proper SLR or TLR there's no way to avoid this process. Have you considered getting an LF SLR for portraiture?

[Daniel Unkefer]

Kuljit,

Thanks for your kind response. I have something similar to what you show, on my Plaubel Peco Profia 4x5's. The major differences with Sinar are important and useful. There are adjustment knobs left and right on the bottom of the mirror box, adjust with these the mirror height, and mirror angle, and can be raised and lowered. The advantages of this are immediately apparent viewing the ground glass. Also there is a lever up top that flips the magnifiying lenses in an out of the viewing path. Sinar made a stronger ocular, I have never seen one for sale in all my time with this stuff. The answer to this (I am considering this) is magnifying eyeglasses from the store, they will fit inside the lighthood. We will see. You can remove the mirror box and use an ocular than presses against the glass as we all know, personally I prefer the Sinar Monocular lens attached to a bag bellows, I can see the fine detail quite well. The mirror box mechanism was patented by Sinar. Like I say it takes some getting used to, not everybody gets along with it. I am patient and I have been buying used Reflex Magnifiers for around $100 used, the Fotodiox unit is $300. I think you would find it very limiting compared to the Sinar.

I also really enjoyed the Hurrell video. Kudos to Bernice. Sure, expression and sensitivity to subject are paramount in LF portraiture. If you can overcome the challenges involved it can be quite rewarding. It certainly is a different vibe than shooting with digital. Hope you enjoy it, I certainly do

Mr. Fromm is right, you might consider a LF SLR. The only one I am immediately aware of is the 4x5 Arca Swiss, Good Luck finding one of those (or the accessories). BUT the Graflex SLR's are quite venerable and wonderful for LF portraiture. I had a Super D with Auto Aperture and sometimes I miss it. It also syncs with modern strobe. Geoff Berliner at Penumbra uses a hot rodded 5x7 Graflex to shoot tintypes! Frank Rubio could help with that

[Dan Fromm]

Dan, the East German Mentor Atelier Reflex (example: https://web.archive.org/web/20220206...QAAOSwB9ZhaRZ9, this one is a dud offered for parts) is a modern LF SLR that's easier to find and probably more reliable than the Arca-Swiss you suggested. There are also older Mentor reflexes, Graflex SLRs and a host of UK made LF SLRs.

[Daniel Unkefer]

Dan, All very nice! They certainly have their place in a studio. Although humungeous I still prefer the LF TLR's as I can avoid the mirror blackout and see the "pop" on the glass. The Gowlandflex and the TLR Cambo are also good TLR possibilities. Ed Sawyer put a pair of 150 f2.8 Schneider Xenotars on his TLR Cambo and he likes it a lot

The TLR Cambos are interesting. I would think the operation would be similar to the Gowland, taking lens is the bottom. So the opposite of the Sinars. Here is one to look at:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/15482842390....c100290.m3507

[Kuljit]

Kuljit, please think before posting. Mr. Unkefer showed you a twin lens reflex camera. You want to use a reflex viewing hood on a normal view camera. Fine, wonderful, but it won't save you from closing the shutter, setting the shutter speed, inserting the film holder, ... Unless you use a proper SLR or TLR there's no way to avoid this process. Have you considered getting an LF SLR for portraiture?

Mr Fromm I am not posting anything irrelevant. I know very well that what Mr Unekefer showed is a TLR camera. But I am gonna stick to normal view camera (as there are not many used SLR view cameras, but many SINAR F2) but I will use reflex viewing hood. I have used manual cameras before digital cameras so well aware of manually changing shutter speeds and apertures etc.

[jnantz]

Groundglass vs Rangefinder attachment focus on 4x5 camera for studio portraits, accuracy and speed, what are your opinions?

I've never bothered with rangefinder attachments and only used ground glass. If you are worried about speed, you might look into a graflex slr. it takes some of the slowness out of shooting 4x5 portraits.
Shooting a LF portrait / focusing on the GG &c is part of the ritual of a portrait/collaboration. even photographing buildings being demolished or environmental newspaper or editorial portriats
I never bothered with a RF, more trouble than its worth...

[Kuljit]

Kuljit,

Thanks for your kind response. I have something similar to what you show, on my Plaubel Peco Profia 4x5's. The major differences with Sinar are important and useful. There are adjustment knobs left and right on the bottom of the mirror box, adjust with these the mirror height, and mirror angle, and can be raised and lowered. The advantages of this are immediately apparent viewing the ground glass. Also there is a lever up top that flips the magnifiying lenses in an out of the viewing path. Sinar made a stronger ocular, I have never seen one for sale in all my time with this stuff. The answer to this (I am considering this) is magnifying eyeglasses from the store, they will fit inside the lighthood. We will see. You can remove the mirror box and use an ocular than presses against the glass as we all know, personally I prefer the Sinar Monocular lens attached to a bag bellows, I can see the fine detail quite well. The mirror box mechanism was patented by Sinar. Like I say it takes some getting used to, not everybody gets along with it. I am patient and I have been buying used Reflex Magnifiers for around $100 used, the Fotodiox unit is $300. I think you would find it very limiting compared to the Sinar.

I also really enjoyed the Hurrell video. Kudos to Bernice. Sure, expression and sensitivity to subject are paramount in LF portraiture. If you can overcome the challenges involved it can be quite rewarding. It certainly is a different vibe than shooting with digital. Hope you enjoy it, I certainly do

Mr. Fromm is right, you might consider a LF SLR. The only one I am immediately aware of is the 4x5 Arca Swiss, Good Luck finding one of those (or the accessories). BUT the Graflex SLR's are quite venerable and wonderful for LF portraiture. I had a Super D with Auto Aperture and sometimes I miss it. It also syncs with modern strobe. Geoff Berliner at Penumbra uses a hot rodded 5x7 Graflex to shoot tintypes! Frank Rubio could help with that

Thanks Me Unkefer, used Sinar reflex magnifier is available and incorporating Fresnel seems to be the solution.

[Dan Fromm]

Mr Fromm I am not posting anything irrelevant. I know very well that what Mr Unekefer showed is a TLR camera. But I am gonna stick to normal view camera (as there are not many used SLR view cameras, but many SINAR F2) but I will use reflex viewing hood. I have used manual cameras before digital cameras so well aware of manually changing shutter speeds and apertures etc.

Kuljit, I'm sorry to have offended. Don't bristle.

I don't think you've got it yet. The LF camera shooting process is: <skip ahead to having finished focusing and, if necessary, adjusting composition> close shutter (manually), stop down to shooting aperture (manually), insert film holder. withdraw dark slide, fire shutter. This is more involved and time consuming than the small format shooting process which is <skip ahead as before>: press the button. The camera manages everything else, and quickly. If it has a leaf shutter SLR it closes the shutter and positions the viewfinder/bottom of prism blind. If it is an SLR, it raises the mirror and stops the lens down to shooting aperture. Finally, it releases the shutter. If the camera is a rangefinder/viewfinder type, all it does is fire the shutter. The film is already in place.

As I mentioned in post #2 above, LF portrait photographers get through the "withdraw dark slide" step and watch the subject(s) until they like what they see, then release the shutter. The dark cloth is not an impediment and a reflex viewer will gain nothing. Remember, once the shutter has been closed all that can be seen through a reflex finder is the back of the shutter.

Imagine doing the process, how you'll have to use your hands and how long it will all take. Experience with small format cameras just doesn't carry over to view cameras.

[Kuljit]

Kuljit, I'm sorry to have offended. Don't bristle.

I don't think you've got it yet. The LF camera shooting process is: <skip ahead to having finished focusing and, if necessary, adjusting composition> close shutter (manually), stop down to shooting aperture (manually), insert film holder. withdraw dark slide, fire shutter. This is more involved and time consuming than the small format shooting process which is <skip ahead as before>: press the button. The camera manages everything else, and quickly. If it has a leaf shutter SLR it closes the shutter and positions the viewfinder/bottom of prism blind. If it is an SLR, it raises the mirror and stops the lens down to shooting aperture. Finally, it releases the shutter. If the camera is a rangefinder/viewfinder type, all it does is fire the shutter. The film is already in place.

As I mentioned in post #2 above, LF portrait photographers get through the "withdraw dark slide" step and watch the subject(s) until they like what they see, then release the shutter. The dark cloth is not an impediment and a reflex viewer will gain nothing. Remember, once the shutter has been closed all that can be seen through a reflex finder is the back of the shutter.

Imagine doing the process, how you'll have to use your hands and how long it will all take. Experience with small format cameras just doesn't carry over to view cameras.

But experience with medium format cameras does carry over to view cameras to a certain degree Mr Fromm!