Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images

[photoevangelist]

Lee:

Having made all of about seven exposures on x-ray film (Kodak CGS) I can offer two suggestions:

1) Rodinal 1:100 is much too "hot" for me to get acceptable contrast, and this is with a 1951 Ektar in a Speed Graphic; lumenized, but not in the contrast class of a modern lens. I tried 1:200 in order to have a manageable developing time in the 6--10 minute range, and got a pale ghost of a negative. Doubling the volume at 1:200 showed that it was not a problem of developer exhaustion, so I tried 1:150 (300 ml for a 4x5 in a 5x7 tray) and got a lovely negative. Reading your earlier post regarding the useful capacity when developing 8x10x versus comparable area at 7x17 made me think that there might be oxidation or oH change (via CO2 absorption) that is more severe in the higher dilution. (A possible complicating factor is that my well water is pH 8.4, so your mileage may vary a lot.)

2) As a kid, I couldn't afford 11x14 trays, so I used a cardboard box (later, a wooden frame) lined with polyethylene film. A bit messy and clumsy, but it works just fine and you can't beat the price. If the poly is new, it should also be essentially scratch-free.

Playing with this stuff reminds me of being a kid, playing with Army surplus film and paper of improbable character and unknown history

Thanks for your suggestions! Right now my biggest problem is uneven development. That's the first kink I need to work out.

Have you seen my 8x10 portraits? I was doing Rodinal 1:50 for 3-4 min. I scanned them on a v750 with AN glass and made digital prints to 40x50 inches. The tones were perfect for me. A weaker dilution would be great for cost effectiveness, but if I do more studio portraits with 8x10 xray, 1:50 is the way I'm going for sure. For landscapes I may want a weaker dilution. That's why I diluted the PMK more than usual, although I may be perfectly content with the normal 1:2:100 PMK dilutions.

[Tin Can]

Line those big old trays with plastic sheeting, show those students how to work with nothing.

Ask for a raise!

It's great how some people can leverage work, teaching and personal art into one location and skill set. Good for you!

[Andrew O'Neill]

Yes just use one tray. Keep processing solutions in containers. Saves lots of room too.

[rdelung]

They are simply scanning 1/2 at a time and then stitching in PS.

Since 7x17 is too long, you just let 1/2 stick out. Or you could even cut it in 1/2!

Thanks Randy, I'm sure I'll have more questions later on. Thanks, Rde..the Seattle guy

[rdelung]

How would one process 7x17 in trays? The school has these old flat metal 16x20 trays. And I mean old. There was a bunch on corrosion on them because no one cleaned them. I got a lot of it off, bit they aint perfect. Unfortunately this is my only option for now. I can't find any other alternative except ordering from Freestyle and having them ship it to me. That will most likely fix the scratches, but I need to resolve the unevenness in my processing.

I am:
Lifting the four corners one at a time. 40 times in the first minute, rest then lift the four corners one at a time at each minute interval, except for PMK I was doing it for every 30 seconds.

Just a thought about the corrosion factor. How about mixing up a batch of clear epoxy resin/poring it into your trays ( cleaned as good as possible ) Let the resin settle to flatten out until cured. I used this technique when I made my own darkroom sink out of wood. I repeated the same process, and put the sink on a 45 degree ang. letting the resin harden into all the corners one at a time. I finished the project with a layer of epoxy paint. It worked out well, I felt badly about removing it from my Dark room. At the time I went to the dark side....Digital. Since then I find myself going back, but only smaller this time. Good Luck...Rde the Seattle guy

[rdelung]

I have been looking at them, but can find little out, except they are designed to process in 45 or 90 seconds, which will make them too fast for us. X-Ray chems are not cheap and I have no idea how long, or how many sheets they do, perhaps many.

Then there are RA4 machines, but I know they are worthless, as no one will pay for one! They were made for fast processing RA4 color prints and also travel quickly, 45 8X10' an hour! Mine is a geared nightmare, I have never even thought of trying to use it. The chem baths are tiny, I see no way it would work well for any negative.

I thought somebody made DIY acrylic dip tanks with hangers, I plan to get there some day.

Hi Randy. In my passed as a X-Ray tech. I have noticed developing systems small enough to run a 14x17 sheet of film through one after the other. The only downsides would be finding the machine, storage tanks, lines to run the chemicals, and of corse the money in which to buy it all. Possibly companies that sell film, and chemistry might have or know of where these portable machines might be found. I've used them, and they work quite well. If anyone is interested, I can look in my area for possibilities.
Thanks,Rde....the Seattle guy

[Tin Can]

Please see what's what. A least a few are interested. I see used machines often on E-Bay and elsewhere. The are tabletop models that do up to 14x17.

Hi Randy. In my passed as a X-Ray tech. I have noticed developing systems small enough to run a 14x17 sheet of film through one after the other. The only downsides would be finding the machine, storage tanks, lines to run the chemicals, and of corse the money in which to buy it all. Possibly companies that sell film, and chemistry might have or know of where these portable machines might be found. I've used them, and they work quite well. If anyone is interested, I can look in my area for possibilities.
Thanks,Rde....the Seattle guy

[Jim Noel]

Trays for 7x17 are far cheaper than are those for 16x20 paper. Buy the green seed starting trays from Park Seed, be sure you get the ones without holes.. Three will cost you around $10-15, if I remember correctly. These are 10x20" trays.

[jb7]

Just developed my first sheet of x-ray film, was remarkably successful, thanks to all the information generously provided by contributors to this thread.

Not only was it a test of a process, but the camera was also on trial- first developed exposure from a packet loading 11x17. No light leaks from the camera and film holder, so proof of concept is just as valuable to me.

Exposure was problematic, indicated 3 seconds in the Maine fog, bellows compensation also bordering on significant- but I got a usable neg, albeit thin- could have done with a little bit more exposure, ( I gave it six seconds) and a little bit more development. Using an ipad as a safelight in a makeshift darkroom, don't quite trust it, so the brightness is way down, but just enough to inspect by- though I've never done that before, so I have no experience of what density to look out for.

The film had also been scanned in carry on through four airports, but there doesn't seem to have been any ill effects. None that I notice so far...

Thanks again for everyone's help here-

Oh, Kodak CSG metered @ 80, D76, 1+3 , 10 mins. Will give the next one a little longer-

[Tin Can]

Great news!

What is 'packet loading'?

Just developed my first sheet of x-ray film, was remarkably successful, thanks to all the information generously provided by contributors to this thread.

Not only was it a test of a process, but the camera was also on trial- first developed exposure from a packet loading 11x17. No light leaks from the camera and film holder, so proof of concept is just as valuable to me.

Exposure was problematic, indicated 3 seconds in the Maine fog, bellows compensation also bordering on significant- but I got a usable neg, albeit thin- could have done with a little bit more exposure, ( I gave it six seconds) and a little bit more development. Using an ipad as a safelight in a makeshift darkroom, don't quite trust it, so the brightness is way down, but just enough to inspect by- though I've never done that before, so I have no experience of what density to look out for.

The film had also been scanned in carry on through four airports, but there doesn't seem to have been any ill effects. None that I notice so far...

Thanks again for everyone's help here-

Oh, Kodak CSG metered @ 80, D76, 1+3 , 10 mins. Will give the next one a little longer-