threading the needle

[Michael R]

Seems like a reasonable definition to me. In general, composition, whether aural or visual, has historically often been defined as organization.

On the subject of 12-tone (and other derivative systems - or actually even atonal music more broadly), while it isn’t the easiest to defend, what I would say to Joe is that composers other than Schoenberg are often easier, sometimes a lot easier to listen to. Berg, for example. On a less related note, regarding Schoenberg, I recommend his “late-romantic” works. They are amazing. I would rank Pelleas und Melisande as a favourite of mine.

Now what ever gave you that idea Joe?

After much philosophical debate, I believe the "definition" of music we came up with back when I was in college was "organized sound." No reason to sound good, in that context. Taking it back to photography - what if one were to define photography as "organized light?"

I'm having ideas now...

[Vaughn]

...what if one were to define photography as "organized light?"
...

That is my definition of (my) photography.

[Joe O'Hara]

Corran-- I was just teasing, of course. I heard the "organized sound" definition when I was in school, too. Hard to argue with that!

My definition of what we value in music, or art of any kind including photography, is work that has staying power. That is, the ability
to speak to us throughout our lives, and over centuries, even across cultural lines, without ever seeming stale, worn out, or provincial.

I would not venture to guess which music written since (say) 1900 will still be listened to two or three centuries from now, but it is likely that
most of the composers who are in that category today will still be listened to then. In the meantime, we must all just do our best, whatever it
is that we are doing. Assuming we know what that is.

Michael R-- I didn't mean to pick on poor Arnold. I do like his Verklarte Nacht, and several other of his pieces. After all, he did say that there was plenty of good music left to be written in C Major. (OK, I'll knock it off with the jokes now.)

[Corran]

was plenty of good music left to be written in C Major.

In C - Terry Riley

[Kiwi7475]

And who’d be organizing the light? Doesn’t it require an organizer?

I like the thought but the main difference is that music is orchestrated (no pun intended), so there’s an organizer (that can be the composer or the interpreter(s) or a combination of both) that performs some level or “systematic arrangement” (that’s what organized is defined as). Even if I told someone “play something random now”, it’s still written down or directed (ie. organized) in some fashion.

When I do product or portrait photography there’s a level of orchestration. I control the lighting, so I orchestrate the light. But when I go out for landscape there’s hardly anything orchestrated, at least not by the photographer. It is merely presented to you and you capture it. Yes, you can orchestrate the composition, and pick a time, and many elements related to the picture taking process, but I don’t organize the light, it’s out there (and yes a lens “organizes” light but I don’t think that’s what is meant here).

[Michael R]

Oh no. Not that thing. Please no!

In C - Terry Riley

[Corran]

Michael, you haven't heard "In C" until you've sat in a massive coliseum with 1,000+ 6th graders playing it on recorders. Yes this really happened and I was unfortunately in attendance.

Kiwi - I think the landscape capture is still an organization of the light by the photographer. I would consider composition, time of day or weather conditions, and other choices to be integral to the success of a photograph, even if the photographer isn't "creating" the light, so that is organization. And then there's the whole post-exposure development and printing organization to consider before a finished print is on the wall.

[Michael R]

Michael R-- I didn't mean to pick on poor Arnold. I do like his Verklarte Nacht, and several other of his pieces. After all, he did say that there was plenty of good music left to be written in C Major. (OK, I'll knock it off with the jokes now.)

You're allowed to pick on Arnold.

[Joe O'Hara]

In C - Terry Riley

Actually I have a recording of that on vinyl. I'm not sure I ever got through the first side, but maybe it's due for another try, it's been a while. (I may even attempt to play my LP of Pierrot Lunaire, the only record I've shied away from listening to by reading the liner notes first... I don't do that any more...)

I would counter with "Common Tones in Simple Time" by Adams.

[Michael R]

Michael, you haven't heard "In C" until you've sat in a massive coliseum with 1,000+ 6th graders playing it on recorders. Yes this really happened and I was unfortunately in attendance.

That does sound pretty torturous. Glad you survived!

Nice to bump into some fellow musicians/music lovers here, even if off topic.