First 8x10 - Field Camera or Monorail?

[Cletus]

Dear Ansel -

Sinar F or P was one of those on my short list. You think about 16lbs? How do you transport the camera? Surely you aren't slinging the tripod over your shoulder with camera attached - unless you have the mightiest head I've ever heard of...

I am in the E. Weston camp with the motto "anything worth photographing can be seen from the road". For the most part anyway. I kinda figured if I was using the heavy non-folder I could just shlep everything over to the "photosite" (ha ha), set up, make exposure, shlep back to the truck and repeat for next image. That's pretty much what I do now with the 4x5, but that camera isblight enough I feel comfortable leaving it on the tripod and therefore slightly increasing my range. Also allows me to make a photo with only one trip to/from my vehicle.

Do you find you can make a picture with a single trip using the 810 monorail? How do you pack the camera? Surely it don't fit into any camera bag or backpack?

[Frank Petronio]

It's a chicken or egg question, you have to use something for a while to know what you want to do, then make adjustments. You may find that you want to shoot a lot of cheap X-ray film or maybe you want to do color neg that costs a fortune? Same with how you carry and move about. Are you going to have a rack of lenses or blow a wad on some fancy old Brass thing? Or shoot with an old beater lens from the 1920s?

The folder will always be more compact in storage but if you use a rack type case to carry the monorail assembled and inverted, then it is ready to go in seconds with hardly any set-up at all if you have a good tripod mounting scheme. I've had C1s and 2Ds too and while some people love them, they never inspired confidence in me. Of course putting an 8x10 on a #3 Gitzo doesn't inspire much confidence either but there are people here who routinely use even lighter tripods with larger cameras.... Whatever!

[Frank Petronio]

I got a Kodak 2d after buying a sinar 810 and a sinar 45
They dont get used

From what we've seen of your output, that's obvious.

[rdenney]

One thing to keep in mind, is that if you buy a camera - any camera - at a fair price, you will be able to resell it at no loss if you decide that the camera (or format) is not for you.
My first 8x10 is also the 8x10 I still have, 20+ years later. A Deardorff V8, made in 1950. Weighs about 13 1/2 pounds, 30" of bellows, movements which will use up the coverage of most any lens you are likely to use, and rigid enough if the rear standard sliders aren't worn out.

Past performance is no guarantee of future results, however. If 8x10 film of the type the OP is willing to use (meaning: not many will be prepared to coat their own film) becomes unavailable or prohibitively expensive, that V8 will be valuable only as a sculpture. Prices may drop significantly, as they did in the past when most pros stopped using this equipment for commercial work.

But the less one pays for a camera, the less the downside risk. A Calumet for half a kilobuck could become unsellable and still not cause too much pain. An Ebony for eight times that can take a deeper bite.

We should, however, recognize the separate but still valid hobby of collecting. Even if some of the cameras I own become completely unusable, I will still keep some of them just because it would pain me to see such a precision piece of equipment go to the landfill. I own a collection of old clocks for the same reason; certainly not because I need them to tell time. We just should not make the mistake of confusing the collecting hobby with the making photographs hobby.

To the OP: I am not an 8x10 user, but general advice that usually works is this: If you intend to do the same sorts of things that pros did when they used such equipment, then get the stuff they used. Equipment for them was designed for flexibility, speed of use, and durability, reflecting years of working pros making their requirements known to manufacturers who then endeavored to fulfill those requirements.

Rick "with Frank on this as usual" Denney

[Drew Wiley]

Monorails and folders handle a lot differently. I use both. Folders are more compact but
slower to set up. I personally use a Phillips 8x10, but a Chamonix or perhaps Wilderness
seems like a reasonable substitute. Lotus or Ebony are nice but pricey. Maybe you can
get lucky and find a true Sinar 8X10 F2 with the steel front standard, but beware of patched together units using 4x5 front ends. Filmholders etc add significantly more wt than
in 4X5. I frequently carry my 8X10 with big Ries tripod on 5 to 10 mile dayhikes, but am
about to attempt a two-week long backpack which mandates the lighter wt of a 4x5 folder. When I was a youth in 40's or even mid-50's that meant a Sinar monorail; but nowadays it means an Ebony folder. Just as much a matter of compactness as weight.
If was was carrrying a big Sinar F or P 8x10 I'd customize an external pack frame, maybe
like the ones elk hunters use to carry back their trophies.

[Leigh]

Hi Cletus,

I have two 8x10 cameras, a Tachihara field camera and a real* Sinar F2 monorail.
They really serve different purposes. I seldom find myself unsure of which to use in a given situation.

If you're doing close-ups of any significance, the F2 monorail will definitely win on bellows extension.
I have an additional bellows and an auxiliary standard, which will get me out to at least 60" of bellows draw.
For 1:1 (full size) reproduction, your bellows draw must be at least twice the lens focal length.

The monorail would also win if you need extreme movements, either in the studio or in the field.

For more modest functional requirements I find the field camera more convenient. The Tachihara is an outstanding field camera.
The monorail comments above should no be construed as implying that the Tachihara is deficient in any way. It's just different.

HTH

- Leigh

*Note
There are different versions of the Sinar F2 8x10 camera. (This may also apply to the F, but I've never owned one.)
The "real" one has very heavy standards, with the rear risers 20mm in diameter, and the front ones 15mm.

The cameras that started life as 4x5 and were converted to 8x10 have 10mm risers front and rear.
Also, the front risers on the converted 4x5 are too short to provide proper rise. I do not recommend this version.

[E. von Hoegh]

Past performance is no guarantee of future results, however. If 8x10 film of the type the OP is willing to use (meaning: not many will be prepared to coat their own film) becomes unavailable or prohibitively expensive, that V8 will be valuable only as a sculpture. Prices may drop significantly, as they did in the past when most pros stopped using this equipment for commercial work.

But the less one pays for a camera, the less the downside risk. A Calumet for half a kilobuck could become unsellable and still not cause too much pain. An Ebony for eight times that can take a deeper bite.

We should, however, recognize the separate but still valid hobby of collecting. Even if some of the cameras I own become completely unusable, I will still keep some of them just because it would pain me to see such a precision piece of equipment go to the landfill. I own a collection of old clocks for the same reason; certainly not because I need them to tell time. We just should not make the mistake of confusing the collecting hobby with the making photographs hobby.

To the OP: I am not an 8x10 user, but general advice that usually works is this: If you intend to do the same sorts of things that pros did when they used such equipment, then get the stuff they used. Equipment for them was designed for flexibility, speed of use, and durability, reflecting years of working pros making their requirements known to manufacturers who then endeavored to fulfill those requirements.

Rick "with Frank on this as usual" Denney

If 8x10 film becomes unavailable, that V8, far from becoming a sculpture - although it would make a nice one - will become a plate camera, dry and/or wet. I've no intention of selling it, ever. There's also the cachet of Deardorff, it is and will remain one of the more sellable cameras, which cannot be said of a Shen Hao.

[rdenney]

Do you find you can make a picture with a single trip using the 810 monorail? How do you pack the camera? Surely it don't fit into any camera bag or backpack?

Wheels, man. That's the trick if you are staying within sight of your vehicle, but not necessarily right next to it. Lots of folks get one of those jogging strollers, and carry all their stuff in that. I mounted wheels on my Sinar 4x5 case so that I didn't have to lift it (it's about 35 pounds, of which the camera is only about 8, not including the tripod). Luggage carts may also work, but the rougher the surface, the bigger the wheels need to be.

Rick "who plays tuba and is used to being a pack animal" Denney

[Drew Wiley]

There were Sinar 8X10 C's with light front ends, something else like an F1 with thicker alum
rods, then the true F2 with the much more preferable steel thick rods on the standard.
But still much lighter than a P or P2. An 8x10 Norma would in my opinion be even better,
but finding one that doesn't take a lot of work to refurbish takes some luck and patience.

[rdenney]

If 8x10 film becomes unavailable, that V8, far from becoming a sculpture - although it would make a nice one - will become a plate camera, dry and/or wet. I've no intention of selling it, ever. There's also the cachet of Deardorff, it is and will remain one of the more sellable cameras, which cannot be said of a Shen Hao.

Yes, it will be worth more as a sculpture (or as an item in a collection)--no doubt about that.

But your statement that you have no intention of selling undermines your previous argument that it will hold its monetary value. If one has no intention of selling it, then its value on the market is of no consequence.

Wet plate? Not on my list of possibilities and it does not fit with my style of photography. But maybe it fits with the OP's. And it sorta sounds to me like the photography serving the camera rather than the camera serving the photography, if the plan is to switch to wet plate as a strategy to avoid the camera no longer being usable.

Rick "who owns a few cameras for their sculptural qualities" Denney