65mm
90mm
Of no particular significance but I just noticed that this thread is almost 3 years old. Perhaps it is possible the camera could be finished and the first completed units shipped out on the anniversary of the first post, Tuesday, 10-Feb-2015, exactly 3 years. From a design proposal to hardware, all done by 2 guys, well, three years suddenly doesn't look too bad.
We should remember that each of us has risked a hundred dollars, a sum that will not ruin any of us. The creators stand to lose, or have lost, a lot more. I certainly don't support any "goodwill" gestures that would cost the founders even more money and jeopardize the chances of us getting a camera that works with a lens.
I totally agree Larry. A C note won't make me poor or them rich.
Although Ben said they would accept no more funds I thought thought it would be a nice gesture to set up a donation fund for his Rogaine treatment as surely he will have pulled out all his hair by the time this is over.
I think the donation fund is a great idea, perhaps it will gain traction once we have the cameras and start producing images. Then, all these troubles will be forgotten. I'm as excited about the camera now as I was three years ago.Originally Posted by plywood
After all, what are the chances I'll walk out the door with a Speed Graphic? Almost zero, I would say. The chances of my taking a light plastic camera with a tiny tripod are much higher, and I expect that will make all the difference in the world.
I've got the lenses, I guess I'll go exercise the shutters.
I've been involved in a lot of product developments of various types, and these troubles are actually not at all unusual. The assumption that projects capitalized by owners (as in traditional developments) see good enough planning to avoid these problems is certainly not my experience. Nobody knows what they don't know, and if it was that obvious, it would already have been done.
There are three things the Ben and Justin needed to know at the outset: Is the project technologically feasible? Can the cost be kept lower than the price? And, are there enough buyers at that price to make the project economically feasible? They spent a over a year investing their own money to build prototypes that would answer their first question. And Kickstarter helped them answer the last question. Had a regular camera manufacturer considered this product, the project would have been squashed from the start. How would any of us have benefitted from that? There is always a compelling case for doing nothing.
To really answer the second question, they would have needed to fully develop the production capability before the Kickstarter campaign, and that would have been infeasible from a cash-flow perspective. Just creating the injection molds was a high-price item, and it had to be done several times. If anything, they did not get either good advice or adequate quality control from their manufacturer. This happens all the time in the real world, and that's why investing in new products is risky.
We are not investors--if they are able in the future to make a profit, we won't share any of that. We are backers. This is the equivalent of passing the hat to pay the upfront costs to make something we all want. Risk is the product of likelihood and exposure. We can't control the likelihood of failure, but the Kickstarter approach controlled risk by reducing the exposure of those who threw money into the hat. The most any of is are out is a hundred bucks.
Three years from concept to delivery for a pass-the-hat project is not a long time. These guys have day jobs. I, for one, am happy to let things unfold as they should. I already have cameras aplenty, as do others here.
Rick "confident and patient" Denney
I think that, rather than support this venture, we should have gone out and purchased one of the many other new $100 LF cameras that fill a special niche. They are, they are.....
Actually, it's heartening to see how patient and supportive the LF community has been.
You are not LF if you are not patient.
Tin Can
Exactly! I see it like this:
I'm joking, but only partly.
In our case, we were working with a shop that told us "no geometry restrictions," and had fantastic prices. That's great if you're very experienced, but if you're not, you actually want geometry restrictions—you want someone to tell you "this part will need a dozen pins to eject correctly, and this part needs a draft" Our shop more or less ran what we gave them, and we were stuck paying for the bandaid fixes.
So I think with the Travelwide, we started off a little too far to the left of that first sweet spot. In particular, we didn't have enough experience to identify weak spots on our own. And some of our challenges could have actually been avoided by a slightly crazier design. But that's the benefit of hindsight…
Don't know what I'm doing with LF, really cannot afford much film, might spring for a box of Arista from Freestyle. It looks like the last film available for less than $1 a shot. Better buy some now before the price goes up. I really want to develop a workflow for photo paper, a lot cheaper for knock off shots and you can work under safelight! Of course, come to think of it, it's not like you are racking off 36 shots like you do with a miniature camera, it could take quite awhile to *carefully* expose 50 sheets.
Ben, I sure don't claim to know about design or fabrication of plastics but.....Exactly! I see it like this:
I'm joking, but only partly.
In our case, we were working with a shop that told us "no geometry restrictions," and had fantastic prices. That's great if you're very experienced, but if you're not, you actually want geometry restrictions—you want someone to tell you "this part will need a dozen pins to eject correctly, and this part needs a draft" Our shop more or less ran what we gave them, and we were stuck paying for the bandaid fixes.
So I think with the Travelwide, we started off a little too far to the left of that first sweet spot. In particular, we didn't have enough experience to identify weak spots on our own. And some of our challenges could have actually been avoided by a slightly crazier design. But that's the benefit of hindsight…
I rent my house to friends because my wife and I wanted to downsize to an apartment when we retired. My renter is a machinist and as soon as I showed him your design he said 'Oh man, I'd never try to mold that helical, I'd machine it out of plastic.' Basically he said with machining you could make and test adjustments much faster than molding.
Of course, even if he has a valid point, (and I'm not saying he has) at this stage it is too late to try out such an alternative production method.
Dave does have about 35 years experience in the field and has worked with plastics.
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