Thanks Mike, your recommendation is greatly appreciated.
Thanks Mike, your recommendation is greatly appreciated.
Thanks again Zheng, I'm prioritising a lens in shutter if I can so this can be used for other forms of media too. Must admit I've not come across some of the brands you mention but it's early days for me!
Light loss due to bellows extension is also working against the large format portrait photographer, and the larger the format the greater the loss. For 8x10, 1:1 is an 8x10 subject (like a a tightly framed face) which is two stops of light lost. So an f9 lens is f18 wide open.Originally Posted by paulbarden
My first thought would be to consider whether you want to begin your wet plate journey at the 8x10 size, or something smaller. Most people opt for 4x5, or maybe 5x7. It’s easier (for one, you can’t handle an 8x10” plate as easily, as you can’t hold it between two fingers of one hand as you can the smaller sizes). It’s also much cheaper as far as materials go. Also, you’d be able to purchase a lens of the appropriate focal length for portraits much more reasonably. I’m not familiar with those cameras, but I’d bet there are reducing backs available. So you could use a 4x5 back, say, for at least a while, then move up when ready. Or you could use a reducing insert inside an 8x10 plate holder.
But your lens options (or at least at a certain price point) would massively increase — 210mm f/4.5 lenses, for example (a good basic, all-around choice for 4x5 portraits) are all over the place. And if you wanted something a little more esoteric or antique — a Petzval, say — you’d be able to find something in the 190mm-230mm or so range without a huge amount of trouble (and .. maybe .. just within your budget). And you’d also be able to find something a little faster — f/3.-something or perhaps f/4 — if you wanted. The look that would provide (if shot wide open, of course) is subjective (I personally like it), but the extra bit of speed is almost always going to be welcome. As people have said, indoor wet plate portraits require an awful lot of light.
As far as a shutter, it’s certainly not a bad idea if as you mention, you may want to use a given lens for film, but for wet plate I don’t think I know of anyone who actually uses a shutter, or triggers their flash that way. I’m sure some do, but I think the majority just remove the lens cap, fire the strobe and replace the lens cap (or however they do it; personally I just remove the dark slide to begin the exposure, and cover the lens with the darkcloth when done…but that’s just my approach). These days you can go on Instagram and find lots of behind-the-scenes videos of people’s setups, see how they actually make their exposures, etc. In any case, doing without a shutter should open up a lot of options/potentially keep costs down.
And as far as different types of lenses go, many wet plate photographers (including me) really like projection lenses. Buhl made some great ones. A quick search on eBay reveals a 216mm, f/3.4 Buhl going for well within your budget. They tend to be pretty sharp, but with a sort of smoothness to them that I at least find really appealing. That would be a nice 4x5 portrait lens, and would be of a size/weight your camera could easily handle. Once you get up to serious/fast 8x10 portrait lenses — my favorite is a 420mm f/4.5 Universal Heliar — they are absolute beasts, usually only really usable on an 8x10 studio camera with a 9”-square lens board. Note that you can also find longer projections lenses that could be used for 8x10, and they are almost always fast (sometimes perhaps too fast) and inexpensive.
Just my thoughts — and of course is you’re dead set on a 8x10-suitable portrait lens, much of what I said is not going to be relevant — but I’ve shot thousands of wet plate portraits for about a decade now. I shot fifty-plus 5x7s at an event just last week. I use a Speedotron 4803 through a beauty dish with diffusion, some continuous light before the flash goes off, and a variety of lenses .. but almost all pretty vintage. Good luck. The process isn’t actually all that difficult. In my view the challenges are more deciding on the look you want (lighting, lens choice, controlling your contrast, etc), and then troubleshooting, troubleshooting, troubleshooting .. as things are always going to pop up. That’s where experience will come in handy.
If you do decide to seek out a 360mm lens and go the 8x10 route off the bat, you may want to consider an f/4.5 Tessar, something like a Xenar or Zeiss — no shutter (or at least as far as I’m aware), but fast, a good general sort of smooth look, and often not all that expensive. Lastly, if you did get a barrel lens but wanted to use it for film at some point, you could always consider using a Packard shutter. I’ve shot many 8x10” negatives with one and it’s always worked well.
Last edited by michael_los_angeles_photo; 16-Jul-2025 at 23:37.
yes the Shanel 5A is certainly the best option for a beginner on a budget, for the versatility in adapting almost whatever.
Full disclosure 1): Shanel-5A comes in at least two variants of mount (for the lens): M62 and M65. ie 62mm or 65mm by 1mm pitch.
source: these are two Shanel-5A I have:
they are the same right?
no, they are not, and I learned when receiving them. Look closer:
Rafael Pankatrov sells a default adapter (meant for something else) that fits perfectly here:
https://rafcamera.com/adapter-m62x1f-to-m65x1m
on the wider Shanel-5A then:
Full disclosure 2):
Rafael Pankratov, ie. RAFCamera make machined high quality whatnot adapters given correct measurements and sketches/pictures are provided. I have different adapters from RAF just for that, the Shanel-5A.
For instance talking of tessar lenses, the very widely available in Europe Industar-51 210mm:
the lens with the adapter ring for the M62x1 Shanel-5A:
on the M65 Shanel-5A (with the adapter 62-65 ring):
the sketch:
============
it is incredible how damn nobody has ever taken the time to list and document a bit these shutters, that are a lifesaver.
the point for Shanel based shutters solutions lack of consideration is a mix of narrow-mind and conservatism.
Many thanks for your comments Michael, you've certainly given me much to think about in terms of starting with 4x5 to get used to the medium and then move on from there. Unfortunately I'm a bit impulsive, maybe not the best character trait for this environment, so may opt to do the hard yards in a more difficult environment if I can't muster up the self-controlI really appreciate your experience and feedback on this.
Many thanks for taking the time and trouble to give such detailed feedback and information, I have lots to learn and this will go into my databank!yes the Shanel 5A is certainly the best option for a beginner on a budget, for the versatility in adapting almost whatever.
Full disclosure 1): Shanel-5A comes in at least two variants of mount (for the lens): M62 and M65. ie 62mm or 65mm by 1mm pitch.
source: these are two Shanel-5A I have:
they are the same right?
no, they are not, and I learned when receiving them. Look closer:
Rafael Pankatrov sells a default adapter (meant for something else) that fits perfectly here:
https://rafcamera.com/adapter-m62x1f-to-m65x1m
on the wider Shanel-5A then:
Full disclosure 2):
Rafael Pankratov, ie. RAFCamera make machined high quality whatnot adapters given correct measurements and sketches/pictures are provided. I have different adapters from RAF just for that, the Shanel-5A.
For instance talking of tessar lenses, the very widely available in Europe Industar-51 210mm:
the lens with the adapter ring for the M62x1 Shanel-5A:
on the M65 Shanel-5A (with the adapter 62-65 ring):
the sketch:
============
it is incredible how damn nobody has ever taken the time to list and document a bit these shutters, that are a lifesaver.
the point for Shanel based shutters solutions lack of consideration is a mix of narrow-mind and conservatism.
hi oldmans
I can't offer much of a suggestion of regarding the lenses you have opted / hoped to purchase (in your original post) they are too slow for wet plate. you might look for something like a wollensak or similar earlier than 1920s vintage barrel by Bausch /Lomb or Turner Reich, or a rapid rectilinear (convertible! so 2 lenses in 1) if you can find them in England/Europe without issue, and hopefully not too spendy. or ... if you are opting for something a bit more "modern" look for a wollensak TELE RAPTAR ( F5.6 ), from what I remember, they might have a very large image circle and will cover your 8x10 negative well. I've had one for eons, it's a sweet sleeper of a lens that won't break your bank ( as is the 10" ). they usually come in a barrel but sometimes you can find them in a shutter (I think there is one that was recently serviced by a formidable wollensak repairman, and for sale here in the classifieds ). ... Paul's advice ( and Michael's ) are spot on. I'm guessing you can get a "reducing back" for your intrepid camera? Until you learn the ropes, I'd also suggest you consider exposing and practicing with a smaller aspect ratio, your bank account will appreciate it too. hope you have fun with wet plate, its a lot of fun! (but sadly not too portable if you don't want to haul around a darkroom with you ) ..
happy summer!
Jon
FWIW, when I decided to start working with wet plate in 2017, I too skipped smaller formats and went straight to 8x10. I did not find it particularly difficult.Many thanks for your comments Michael, you've certainly given me much to think about in terms of starting with 4x5 to get used to the medium and then move on from there. Unfortunately I'm a bit impulsive, maybe not the best character trait for this environment, so may opt to do the hard yards in a more difficult environment if I can't muster up the self-control
A few months after taking a workshop on the process, a tintype I made won the grand prize in the first annual Modern Collodion competition.(see:https://petapixel.com/2018/04/05/the...e-competition/)
While Michaels advice is very sensible, I think that if 8x10 is what you want to be doing, then just do it. If I could manage it, so can you.
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