2x3 view camera vs a Mamiya 7

[GG12]

Hve been fond of movements for a long time with 4x5 but never quite mastered the viewing process. Somehow just couldn't get it right. Recently got a Kapture Group sliding back for a MF digital back, and pleased. The ability to monitor exposure, color temp, Iso and composition relatively instantly is good fun - along with movements.

As to scanners, tried both an early Imacon 343 and the Epson 700 on 6x6 film and while the Imacon is better, it isn't really noticeable until > 12" prints. The Epson 700 makes a very nice 4x5 scan, surprisingly good. A drum scan of the 6x6 film is superb, and one option is to use an Epson to make "working" scans and then send out for drum on a few select ones. That said, must confess to little film work in the past year or two, although it has lovely character.

[Bernice Loui]

Watching this discussion has been an interesting experience in learning about hardware wars.

The Mamiya 7 is a very different camera than any view camera, they are both completely different tools intended for very different task, regardless of optics and such. This comparison is about as valid as comparing a lemon to a strawberry.

The Mamiya 7 is very much a larger version of the Leica M series of cameras with all their attributes and limitations, a view camera is and always be what it is regardless of the film size involved.

As for this competition of who has the better optics, it is just not that simple as LPM or "sharpness" or any of the usual foto fashion obsessions. Image quality in the final result is far more complex than just optics. There is lighting, recording medium, and much, much more that seriously affect the final results.

Rather than battle over what is this or that, why not simply go out and create great images?

Has the art of producing high quality prints from film in a traditional wet darkroom become completely lost to today's digital?

Bernice

[Bernice Loui]

IMO, 5" x 7" or 13cm x 18cm is the ideal format for many reasons. When one seriously considers that theoretical limits of camera optics, film performance, film plane flatness, camera size, enlargement factors, enlarger size, and a host of other factors 5" x 7" or 13cm x 18cm comes out as one of the best overall.

Settled on 5" x 7" or 13cm x 18cm over twenty years ago and it remains the ideal view camera ( Sinar) format for me.


Bernice

Hi Hélcio,

Several years ago I began having pain in the shoulders that made it painful to work with the heavy ULF cameras so I quit using them temporarily, hoping that the problem would respond to medication. Unfortunately the pain got worse and eventually rotary cuff surgery was necessary to repair both the right and left shoulders. I am much better now, about 1.5 years after the last surgery and lots of therapy, but earlier this year decided I would not take any more chances with the shoulders and sold off most of the rest of my ULF film and equipment.

But in truth, the 5X7" has always been my favorite format, and I still have a beautiful little 5X7 Nagaoka that is very easy for me to use.

Sandy

[toyotadesigner]

Mamiya 7II is an electronic camera that has been discontinued.

Huh? And what is this:

http://www.mamiya.de/neu_08/index.ph...f1aacb3533eae1

At least in Europe it is still available.

http://www.mamiya.co.jp/home/camera/...ide/index.html

In Japan too.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search...rch=yes&sts=ta

In the US too.

[Steve Goldstein]

Watching this discussion has been an interesting experience in learning about hardware wars.

The Mamiya 7 is a very different camera than any view camera, they are both completely different tools intended for very different task, regardless of optics and such. This comparison is about as valid as comparing a lemon to a strawberry.

<snippage>

Bernice

Agreed, and I have and use both M7 and 4x5.

The Mamiya's lack of close focusing has on occasion been an annoyance, but I live with it. The M7 gives me speed, convenience, and unobtrusiveness. It's the camera I usually take when I'm out with my wife hiking or touristing, where all three attributes contribute to marital harmony. When we went to Alaska earlier this year I had two M7 bodies, three lenses, filters, miscellaneous, and about 30 rolls of film in a small backpack. Ten of those rolls were 220, so it was film enough for 400 exposures.

The 4x5 is, well, a view camera, with all that entails. That's what I take when I'm going out on my own somewhere, with no concerns that the relatively slow method of working will inconvenience anyone else. I actually prefer it, even though it's more complex and entails a lot more film handling if I'm only carrying a few holders (and a changing tent and box of film).

Sure, I would prefer to use the 4x5 (or 5x7) all the time, but I'm not making a living from this so I don't always have a strong argument for the larger format. I balance the equipment against the situation and do what I can with what I've got.

(Bernice, again) Rather than battle over what is this or that, why not simply go out and create great images?

Amen.

I consider myself fortunate to be able to choose between these two excellent but very different equipment sets.

[David A. Goldfarb]

When we had a child, I wanted a camera smaller than 4x5" for travel and settled on a Linhof 2x3" Technika V, which I can use like a view camera on a tripod or handheld with rangefinder cammed lenses. I usually shoot rollfilm with it in 6x7 backs that have excellent film flatness, but I also have sheet film holders and Grafmatics for the advantages of individual development or a more panoramic format. It's a bigger, heavier camera than a Mamiya 7, and the separate rangefinder and viewfinder make things a bit more complicated, but you can learn to work with it, and the kit is half the size of my 4x5" Tech V kit, presuming the same number of filmholders, lenses, accessories, etc.

It's best if you can find a kit with three cammed lenses, since the camera is out of production, but you can still get lenses cammed for it, if you want the most modern lenses. The lenses I have cammed for the 2x3" Technika are a Rodenstock 55mm/4.5 Apo-Grandagon, Schneider 105mm/2.8 Xenotar, and 180mm/5.6 (Rodenstock) Caltar II-N.

[Henry Carter]

I would concur with David - the Linhof Technika Vb 6x9 is a wonderful rangefinder camera for hand-held use or traditional view camera use on a tripod (ground-glass focusing & movements), and it is ideal for travel photography. It now competes with my 4x5 Linhof Master Technika as my most used camera, and it is the camera I am most likely to take on a trip.

It is a scaled-down 2/3 version of arguably the most versatile 4x5 camera system - the Linhof Master Technika. The advantage of roll film over sheet film is that you need one roll-film back, can shoot lots of film fast without worrying about loading film holders, and never need a film tent.


the Mamiya 7II is probably more ideally suited for street shooting, but for me any camera that lacks front rise becomes less useful when travelling and taking pictures of buildings, statues, etc. Being able to compose on the ground-glass, use movements, and have 3 cammed (55, 100, 180mm) interchangeable lenses for even hand held photography makes it an ideal kit. It is much more compact than a similar 4x5 kit.

Though I love the quality, detail, and tonality of 4x5 negs, 6x9 negs are not bad at all, not bad at all... And there are shots you will never be able to take with a 4x5 camera.

[bob carnie]

Has the art of producing high quality prints from film in a traditional wet darkroom become completely lost to today's digital?

Bernice

As long as I can still operate all my bodily functions I will have a traditional wet darkroom... and a monster setup I must say by most standards.

[Helcio J Tagliolatto]

Hi Hélcio,

Several years ago I began having pain in the shoulders that made it painful to work with the heavy ULF cameras so I quit using them temporarily, hoping that the problem would respond to medication. Unfortunately the pain got worse and eventually rotary cuff surgery was necessary to repair both the right and left shoulders. I am much better now, about 1.5 years after the last surgery and lots of therapy, but earlier this year decided I would not take any more chances with the shoulders and sold off most of the rest of my ULF film and equipment.

But in truth, the 5X7" has always been my favorite format, and I still have a beautiful little 5X7 Nagaoka that is very easy for me to use.

Sandy

Oh! I hope that you continue shooting!
Almost everything I learned about printing kallitype I owe to your teachings on the net!