Anyone shooting 'cyanotography'? - exposure times?

[m1tch]

Hi all,

I am just wondering on this, I have seen it done before but im pretty sure I just invented a new word for it lol basically I am getting into large format and will also be experimenting with some alternative methods, I have seen a few people use a cyanotype method but used it in camera, exposure times are of course long but they get an image which can then be developed simply with water.

I am just wondering if anyone on here has used this method rather than just using it for contact printing?

[mdm]

This is what you are after.

http://www.mikeware.co.uk/mikeware/N...e_Process.html

[jnantz]

hi m1tch
i have not done it yet, but ...
i use regular enlarging paper sometimes, in camera, for 45 mins to 8hours
to get an image, i would imagine cyanotype ( classic ? ) would be the same
depending on the time of day, type of light &c.
i have been meaning to coat some cyanotype and stick it in a camera to do just as
mention, but life tends to get in the way.
maybe tomorrow ? if i do, i will report back

- john

ps would you be contact printing your cyanotype negative to make a positive, or keeping the final image a negative ?

[m1tch]

hi m1tch
i have not done it yet, but ...
i use regular enlarging paper sometimes, in camera, for 45 mins to 8hours
to get an image, i would imagine cyanotype ( classic ? ) would be the same
depending on the time of day, type of light &c.
i have been meaning to coat some cyanotype and stick it in a camera to do just as
mention, but life tends to get in the way.
maybe tomorrow ? if i do, i will report back

- john

ps would you be contact printing your cyanotype negative to make a positive, or keeping the final image a negative ?

Thanks for your response john, yeah I was thinking about using photographic paper but then I would need a lot of developers etc to process it, whereas with Cyanotype you can just use water (and a bit of hydrogen peroxide if wanting a deeper tone) and thats it. I'm ok with the process of making it (although not yet tried it) but its very simple, and I think that it would be quite fun as im not going to be too worried if I mess one up, its not like sheet film that costs a fair amount per sheet!

Here is what I found when someone used it in an LF camera however didn't develop it so the results weren't blue!

http://www.alternativephotography.co...egative-prints

I can see that the sun has actually burnt through the paper and damaged the film holder on a long exposure, it seems that a few hours is about the time it takes to get an image, here is the video I also saw that got me thinking about it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4FCAgO63tI


With regards to getting it as a positive, I will be scanning the image in and then inverting it - the opposite colour to the Cyanotype is a sepia tone, or I could simply print the image and make a digital negative but I have heard that you can rub oil or something on the back of the paper which then makes it slight transparent meaning you can use the paper negative as the transparent negative. If I am honest though I will probably either keep it as a negative or invert it and simply show it online/print it from there - much like the normal hybrid process.

I will experiment with a few of my 35mm cameras I have or I could buy a slightly larger box camera that uses obsolete film and put some cyanotype paper in the back, issue being the small aperture.

Question is, how come when copying an image it takes about 7-8 minutes in the sun, whereas if you are 'copying with light' it takes hours? I know that if there is a lens there isn't as much light getting through but im not sure why it would take hours but hey lol I have also heard of a slightly faster cyanotype process ie the 'cyanotype rex' process which I will also look into, im not really too worried about the longer exposure time, I could just open the shutter and then have lunch

[jnantz]

hi again m1ch

i think you might have misunderstood about the photo paper.
put in a camera, left with the shutter open for an extended period of time ...
an image appears on the paper. you leave the paper undeveloped, and UNFIXED.
fixer will make the image vanish, dilute hypo ( olde school sodium thiosulfate ) is also
too strong ( even with a buffer ) to save the image, i haven't used toners first but
i understand they don't do much help either
so ... if you are scanning your camera made paper image it is a match made in heaven.
the original photographic experiment were kind of like this they were called "retina prints" ..

good luck !
john

[m1tch]

hi again m1ch

i think you might have misunderstood about the photo paper.
put in a camera, left with the shutter open for an extended period of time ...
an image appears on the paper. you leave the paper undeveloped, and UNFIXED.
fixer will make the image vanish, dilute hypo ( olde school sodium thiosulfate ) is also
too strong ( even with a buffer ) to save the image, i haven't used toners first but
i understand they don't do much help either
so ... if you are scanning your camera made paper image it is a match made in heaven.
the original photographic experiment were kind of like this they were called "retina prints" ..

good luck !
john

The guy in the video just developed the cyanotype images from the camera as per usual though? I will check out retina prints, it will probably be quite a while before I get a large format camera kit together but I will be buying parts when I can ie lens, film holders, tripod etc I might also look at something like those Ilford pinhole cameras that take the standard 5x4 film holders which would be interesting to use as with cyanotype printing the image size is what you get lol im not really tempted to go larger than 5x4 so that should keep the costs down, but I guess if using paper I have made myself it would open up the size of the medium used for very little extra cost. Its all a bit of experiment really, and considering cyanotype chemicals and equipment isn't as much as say looking at salt printing with silver nitrate its a start

It looks like someone else had the same idea as me and has got some results

http://williamarnoldphotographer.com...ves-in-camera/

After a bit of further research there are details on how to create a positive cyanotype in camera:

http://www.apug.org/forums/forum42/7...es-camera.html

It seems that this is a bit closer to gum printing as it has a gum arabic base, im going to try with the original Cyanotype and see what happens, then I might buy the extra chemicals needed, but it seems to be a bit more stable than using a process like wet plate or tintype where the chemicals are a tad flamable!

[jnantz]

the fellow in the youtube video suggested he did a 3hour exposure with a f1.8 lens.
if you are planning on using a pinhole camera that would be something like f295 give or take ..
so it would be a very very long exposure with your cyanotype paper. he processed the paper as usual in water ..

since you are scanning, you can use any camera to do this sort of thing
junk folders and box cameras as long as you can do a time exposure, you are OK.
i regularly use cameras i make ( and sell ) that have a wollaston meniscus lens
and a focus screen. my favorite is a 7x11 camera ..
the attached images were about 40min exposures on regular photo paper
and the scanned ... ( NOT DEVELOPED IN CHEMISTRY )
these are pretty much what were originally referred to as retina prints.

have fun !
john

[m1tch]

Hmm thats true, it would need to have a lens on it then otherwise the exposure would probably be days lol its something that I will probably try at some point but I know that LF lenses aren't exactly very fast, I guess I could just create a digital negative if I were to use a DSLR or indeed a negative from a MF or 35mm camera on an enlarger to create a larger image when not shooting large format.

The main issue I usually come up against is the cost and issue of developing film due to the number of chemicals needed, I guess im just 'future proofing' myself when it does get to the stage of film becoming harder to get hold of, plus I just like a simple analogue process instead of worrying that my developer isn't at exactly 21C etc etc plus all the issues around light leaks.

[jnantz]

if you have access to xerox machine or laser printer, you could easily just invert one of your digital files and print it out to whatever size you wanted to make
a cyanotype. just wax the paper to make it translucent and make paper negative that way. no large film, large camera or long exposures would be needed ..
if you go to the cyanotype flickr group there is a guy who has a 3 part video on waxing a laser print and making cyanotypes from that ..
there's lots of ways to make a negative or positive ...

[m1tch]

Yeah I could create a digital negative, I have heard of waxing paper to make it transparent I guess I could just use Cyanotype as the printing process instead of going hybrid on some shots, it seems that I need to look into positive processes for experimenting like tintype but im still going to have a go at using cyanotype as a paper negative.