Wide angle lenses on 4x5 field camera

[Mike Lease]

I'm curious about preferences for bag bellows or drop-beds to handle short wide angle lenses. For landscape work where I would mostly be using 75mm to 125mm lenses it seems that using a bag bellows would be much simpler than tweaking the amount of drop and front rise when changing lenses. On the other hand, carrying around the regular bellows and swapping them while in the great outdoors in order to use longer lenses doesn't sound like a good idea or much fun.

Are there other considerations specific to bag bellows vs drop-bed that make would make you recommend one instead of the other?

Mike

[neil poulsen]

I think that your question may be not so much "drop-bed" versus bag bellows, as it may be "drop-bed" versus monorail cameras. All the drop-bed does is lower the front of the camera from being seen in the photo. A bag bellows makes that possible, and yet still retain parallel front and rear standards.

There are multiple cameras that are capable of dropping the front bed, that can also accept a bag-bellows.

[Mike Lease]

I hear what you're saying about the monorail. With a 90mm Super Angulon I've had to pull the monorail back so that only about 1/4 of it was in front of the tripod mount to get it out of the photo.

I've been mostly looking at the "classic" style field cameras built in the far east. I haven't done an exhaustive review but they mostly seem to either support interchangeable bellows or can drop the bed out of the way so I was thinking either/or, not both. I should also say I want to avoid recessed lens boards (fat fingers) so the bag bellows should have an advantage there. I know part of this has to do with lens to film distance with the bellows fully compressed (assuming something else doesn't limit that distance) and a bag bellows should allow for more movements than a nearly fully compressed regular bellows.

[rdenney]

Neil is right that there are multiple cameras that support both a drop bed and a bag bellows.

But it sounds as though your are struggling with your monorail camera, too. I used to have the same problem with my Cambo SC--either the front of the rail was in the picture or the back of the rail was stabbing me in the heart. And 65mm lenses tested the limits of that camera, requiring both a bag bellows and a recessed board.

Those issues are why I switched to Sinar--I wanted to be able to go as short as a 47 for use with roll-film holders. The Sinar base rail is only 12" long, which solves the problem you mentioned. For longer lenses, it can be extended without limit easily, in increments of 6, 12, or 18 inches. Sinar also provides an excellent bag bellows with a double pleat called the "Wide Angle Bellows 2". Those bellows make it possible to use lenses as long as a 210 without having to change back to the standard bellows, and as short as 47mm using a flat board. You can then use the standard bellows as a compendium shade, with the addition of a short hexagonal rod and a couple of plastic clips.

The other advantage to switching the monorail to the Sinar is that it is compatible in most ways with the Shen-Hao XPO. That camera is a non-folding bed camera with a triple-extension bed, designed to accept lenses from (at least) as short as a 72mm Super Angulon XL to something around 400mm as I recall. It is compatible with Sinar bellows and lens boards, and will even allow use of the Sinar Auto Aperture Shutter (though perhaps without the auto-aperture feature).

If you are considering a high-priced field camera, the above combination might cost less and fulfill all your requirements more fully.

Rick "a monorail guy but sometimes tempted by that pretty XPO" Denney

[Bob Salomon]

A Linhof Technika 2000 or 3000 handles a 35mm without an interchangeable bellows.

[David A. Goldfarb]

These are separate issues.

The reason for dropping the bed on a flatbed camera is to keep it out of the image when using wide lenses, particularly with the back set to vertical. Some flatbed cameras allow the back to slide forward, so it may not be necessary to drop the bed with a wide lens. With a monorail camera, this is like putting both the front and the back in front of the tripod mount for an ultrawide lens to keep the rail out of the image.

The reason for a bag bellows is to allow the camera to focus to infinity with short focal lengths and to allow for movements. On some cameras, particularly those with a thin, tapered bellows, the bellows is flexible enough that you can focus a wide lens and utilize the full image circle without a bag bellows (though you may have other problems with a flatbed like physical obstruction with the front standard retracted inside the box).

[Jim Noel]

A recessed lens board will handle the focal lengths you are talking about. I have used one on a field camera for many years. The deeper they are, the better a regular bellows functions, but the more difficult to set the shutter, etc. The FL's you are talking about only require a somewhat "normal" recess, probably about 1/2", but Ihave not attempted to measure the depth. If your camera uses LInhof style boards, you should have no trouble finding a recessed board.

[kgm]

If you are looking for a 4x5 that handles wide angles well, consider one of the Ebony non-folding designs. The Ebonys are not cheap, but they are well-built and beautifully designed. After struggling with wide angles on my Deardorff 4x5 Special and Wisner 8x10 Traditional, the Ebony is a joy to use. I have Schneider 80mm and 110mm Super Symmars. The 80mm has a good sized image circle, and the 110 a huge one, and both can be used with maximum movements on my Ebony 45SU with the standard universal bellows (a pleated bellows that has an un-pleated end by the front standard to allow for more flexibility). If you want to use something wider than 80mm, you might want a bag bellows, which is also available. The non-folding Ebonys have very little front extension with wide angles, and without the bed needed for a folding camera, there is nothing to get in the way to start with. I loved my Deardorff and the Wisner was good, too, but the Ebony really is a great design. The non-folding design also allows for a taller front standard and greater rise, which allows full use of the 110mm Super Symmar.

[chassis]

I use a Schneider SA XL 58mm on a Toyo 45AII, with a 12mm recessed lens board. The camera provides a drop bed feature, but does not accept bag bellows. I have found it a good system for my needs (landscape, still life, environmental portraits). The bed is in view of the lens with the film back in portrait (vertical) orientation. If the image I am working on requires vertical film back orientation, I account for this fact in composition, then crop out the bed in the print.

[Bob Salomon]

[QUOTE=chassis;972646 If the image I am working on requires vertical film back orientation, I account for this fact in composition, then crop out the bed in the print.[/QUOTE]

Why not position the back horizontally and rotate the camera for the vertical? That way the bed would not be in the picture. You just need a head that can handle the camera vertically.