Vageeswari in India?

**Chris Birchmore** · 17-Nov-2013, 12:55

I have just joined this forum. I do trade on ebay as "Photolud" , and have been supplying Vageeswari and derivative cameras for some 6 years now.The Vageeswari name is generally given to a design pattern of camera produced in India and Japan during the time of British rule. Vageeswari Camera Works made the design from the early days right through to latter production, they account for over half the production but there were many other makes. The most common size is 12x10, but early VCW versions are very rare. Though most 12x10s are in fact late type VCWs with veneered plywood baseboards, these have more limited tilt movements, whilst they are nicely made, aluminium fittings sometimes suffer and are corroded, (early models used brass), also focus rails are not so precision, often a bit loose which accelerates wear, their bellows are usually stiff heavy material , that again is straining the mechanisms to extend, even though some of these bellows are as new they still can have a scatter of tiny pinholes, ideally the bellows need replacing but at a cost of over £200 making this usually unviable.
As regards my "Marking the Price up", many of these cameras cost me 75% of what I sell them for, to just buy and get them to UK, then I have to do all the cleaning , and polishing up, sometimes adjusting the focus rack mechanism which is tedious , replacing parts, fitting bellows when absolutely necessary, repairing plate holders - latterly supplies of these holders have become very limited. From what can arrive as a very dirty old camera , can be made quite beautiful, some of the older wood has such lovely patina . But when one costs ones labour at say £10 an hour, time very often is at a loss.

I am surprised at what Gerald says as my Misrepresentation of condition , most sales are made on ebay , buyers do have the opportunity to give feedback, what I get always seems good, some buyers collect , they always seem very delighted. A buyer did have a problem with pinholes in bellows as Gerald mentions , admittedly I was surprised as no-one had complained before when bellows were of that condition, however this was resolved with a partial refund which I felt obliged to do, it did come at a bad time when I had just been diagnosed with possible Melanoma skin cancer , fortunately this turned out to be a less serious kind, never the less I lost an inch circle out of my face, I perhaps did not handle the complaint at that time as well as I could have done in those circumstances.

Personally I do not find people back out of purchases when committed to buy, many enquire, many of these decide a new purchase would be better. I have supplied these cameras in 1/2 plate, wholeplate, 10x12, 12x15, 8.5x15, 6x15, 6.5x15, and 10x15, some other sizes do exist but are uncommon.

**Steven Tribe** · 19-Nov-2013, 02:56

Welcome to the forum!

I don't doubt your small mark-up on ebay - certainly in relation to the time needed to get them into a condition that can be described as OK rather than Needs Work!

I would thought that the average buyer of these larger format cameras, suitable for wetplate would have more interest in getting hold of an AS IS cameras, rather than a camera prepared for ebay sale!
When you sell to a non-EU buyer, there Will also be the problem of double VAT. First On entry to the UK from India and then again when it leaves the EU.

I certainly agree with Your Comments about plate holders for these bigger sizes. They were never easy to find - but now They are just about impossible to get hold of!
Sorry about the Capitals but My iPad has a longer learning curve than I expected!

**Chris Birchmore** · 20-Nov-2013, 03:24

Originally Posted by Steven Tribe

Welcome to the forum!

I don't doubt your small mark-up on ebay - certainly in relation to the time needed to get them into a condition that can be described as OK rather than Needs Work!

I would thought that the average buyer of these larger format cameras, suitable for wetplate would have more interest in getting hold of an AS IS cameras, rather than a camera prepared for ebay sale!
When you sell to a non-EU buyer, there Will also be the problem of double VAT. First On entry to the UK from India and then again when it leaves the EU.

I certainly agree with Your Comments about plate holders for these bigger sizes. They were never easy to find - but now They are just about impossible to get hold of!
Sorry about the Capitals but My iPad has a longer learning curve than I expected!

**Chris Birchmore** · 20-Nov-2013, 03:31

If I was just an individual buyer yes I would prefer to get a camera AS IS, work on it myself and save the money, but I find it rare for anyone to want to do this. Whilst they are easy to work on, some people have not got a clue, and experience helps to understand how they work and come apart. Buyers tend to avoid buying from places like India, as they seem to have mistrust, but if you buy through Ebay you can easily find out a seller reputation by their feedback. Also when I was first selling prices were usually poor as the brand was virtually unknown and Indian, certainly none the worse for being Indian though.

**Chris Birchmore** · 20-Jan-2014, 03:06

Gerald Figal , I note your comment about a buyer still waiting for restitution regarding a complaint about pinholes in a Vageeswari bought from me - Photolud , your comment was made on 18th June 2013 ,I today checked details in my correspondance and sales records with this buyer. The buyer bought the camera 31 Dec 2012, received it mid January , made a complaint regarding pinholes in mid February, even when new these latter day Vageeswari[ bellows are not totally light tight. Following discussion , the buyer was given compensation she asked for , in early March 2013, over 3 months before your comments.So the buyer you know was not still waiting for restitution . It would be helpful if you would correct your comments accordingly. If justified complaints are made regarding cameras I do make things right with the buyer, however I very rarely do get complaints about these camera, nearly always praise.
QUOTE=Gerald Figal;1038472]I know that this is a thread several months old (hello Andrew Plume! Long time no see! And I beg to differ about the compelling nature of Vags--I have one and two more coming...). But just an update on the availability on VCW cameras. Indeed, UK-based Photolud was/is getting some from India, doing some restoration and reselling at a markup. Several of my wetplate friends have bought from him, some happy and several not because of misrepresentation of condition of camera (one friend is STILL trying to get restitution for a pinhole-filled bellows that was described as light tight). John Alex was/is a major supplier via eBay, but he has recently become disillusioned with eBay fees and some buyers backing out of deals. So, I've partnered with him to sell direct, mainly to wetplaters in the Facebook forum I administer. If you search eBay now for these cameras you're not going to find much.
As LF and especially ULF field cameras they are great values, well built, and rather cool looking. You can't find comparable price/performance in ULF. Also attractive to wetplaters is the fact that they have book-style film/plate holders that need no modifications for wetplate save perhaps sanding and sealing frame to protect from silver mitrate drippings.
In any case, that's where most of these cameras are sourced. John is too busy acquiring cameras and lenses and packing and shipping so he's commissioned me to advertize for him, so if you're interested you can PM me.[/QUOTE]

**Michael Carter** · 18-Nov-2016, 22:08

I also have a lot of the cameras from Alex and am very happy with them. Awesome packing, never broken. I have coated and shot 8 1/2 X 15 glass plates. Photobucket has some online, studiocarter...
http://s822.photobucket.com/user/stu...?sort=6&page=1

**GeorgeDevasia** · 17-Jan-2017, 00:19

Originally Posted by IanG

The Vageeswari cameras are based on Houghton (Butcher) cameras so different to the Rajah. Houghton (India) Ltd, later to become Houghton Butcher (Eastern) Ltd made cameras in India before WWII and had Sales offices in Bombay and Calcutta they were also the distributors for Ross lenses in India.

Houghton Butcher (Eastern) Ltd itself was owned by British Photographic Industries. Ltd and a shareholder was Major The Hon.. J. J. Astor who was aide-de-camp to the Viceroy of India 1911-14, he later became an MP and Chairman of the Times (which he'd bought) and was a director of Hambros Bank, Phoenix Assurance and the GWR.

It's probable that Houghton (India) formed in 1911 had taken over part of the John Blees business based in Calcutta, he ran a studio and was also an importer and manufacturer, he was advertising locally made cameras in 1895, he had been a well known wet plate photographer in India as far back as the mid 1870's. In his own words in a 1910 advert “John Blees' Cameras known to stand the Indian Climate.” He was also the distributor of Ross lenses in India prior to Houghton (India) Ltd. By 1920 the John Blees company was owned by J H Gordon M.P.S. (a chemist) and was operating mainly as a studio again.

It's known that Vageeswari Camera Works had a link to a British manufacturer, their name doesn't seem to appear until after WWII by which time Houghton Butcher had been restructured after their head quarters was destroyed in the Blitz in 1940. Ensign emerged and contiued trading into the 1960's, there was still an Indian subsidiary, however large format camera production had ceased. That raises the question of what happened to the Indian workshop(s) that had once made Houghton Butcher LF cameras after WWII.

During the 1930's the Japanese had copied the Indian made LF cameras as a consequence there are cameras like the Asahi field camera, the Asanuma, some sold by Charten, which all look very similar to the Vageeswari's.

Ian

http://english.manoramaonline.com/ne...runakaran.html