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Thread: Replacing brass wood screws with machine screws on an antique camera...

  1. #11

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    Re: Replacing brass wood screws with machine screws on an antique camera...

    Quote Originally Posted by rdenney View Post
    No, he was talking about gluing in the insert, which is a very good idea.
    One of these: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rampamuffe I assume?

    Ugliness aside, it would doubtlessly work, but as others pointed out, there are all wood solutions which are just as strong and historically more accurate.

  2. #12

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    Re: Replacing brass wood screws with machine screws on an antique camera...

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianShaw View Post
    Stronger. Ask any woodworker or antique repairer or pipe organ builder/restorer. This is the proper way. It puts the thread into end-grain rather than side-grain. It is so proper that when pressure and vacuum tight wood connections are used, that is the repair technique. Shoving toothpicks in the hold is not.
    I should also add that hardware store/bigbox "hardwood" dowels are not suitable for this work. You need to use something like maple to peg the holes, not crap-grade birch.
    One man's Mede is another man's Persian.

  3. #13

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    Re: Replacing brass wood screws with machine screws on an antique camera...

    Quote Originally Posted by E. von Hoegh View Post
    I should also add that hardware store/bigbox "hardwood" dowels are not suitable for this work. You need to use something like maple to peg the holes, not crap-grade birch.
    Crap grade birch would not be that bad, if it were just that - what disqualifies the common ready made wood dowels is that they are compressed wood, supposed to expand when wetted with glue. A desirable property when pegging wood surrogates or plywood, but likely to cause solid wood to crack.

  4. #14

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    Re: Replacing brass wood screws with machine screws on an antique camera...

    E... I reserve my stock of maple and hickory dowel for ramrods, and successfully use the birch dowels for repair of torne screwholes in pneumatic devices. I did not know that any dowels are engineered (I think I knew that some of the pre-made pegs and bisquits were, but never use them) but it has been quite a while since I've bought any. I bought a whole bunch of dowel material many years ago and I'm only using it one inch at a time.

  5. #15

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    Re: Replacing brass wood screws with machine screws on an antique camera...

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianShaw View Post
    E... I reserve my stock of maple and hickory dowel for ramrods, and successfully use the birch dowels for repair of torne screwholes in pneumatic devices. I did not know that any dowels are engineered (I think I knew that some of the pre-made pegs and bisquits were, but never use them) but it has been quite a while since I've bought any. I bought a whole bunch of dowel material many years ago and I'm only using it one inch at a time.
    Good dowels are available, and birch can be hard. But what I see in the big volume stores is crap and just not suitable for much. I've just whittled pegs (and rounded them by chucking in a drill and sanding) when I need to repair a hole.

    I'm somewhat ashamed to admit that I use fiberglass loading rods in the field, at the range I use a 1/4" stainless steel T-handled rod with a muzzle guide.
    One man's Mede is another man's Persian.

  6. #16

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    Re: Replacing brass wood screws with machine screws on an antique camera...

    Quote Originally Posted by E. von Hoegh View Post
    ... 1/4" stainless steel T-handled rod with a muzzle guide.
    Yes, got one too. I never liked it very much. Don't know why though. It is a nice piece of hardware and the concept makes perfect sense.

  7. #17

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    Re: Replacing brass wood screws with machine screws on an antique camera...

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianShaw View Post
    Yes, got one too. I never liked it very much. Don't know why though. It is a nice piece of hardware and the concept makes perfect sense.
    At one time I was target shooting and seating bullets with the butt of the gun on a bathroom scale, the T handle was just the thing. I made it out of a 303SS round and stuff from the scrap barrels; I also made followers which conform to the bullet or round ball.
    One man's Mede is another man's Persian.

  8. #18
    Name: ______William Booth
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    Re: Replacing brass wood screws with machine screws on an antique camera...

    Quote Originally Posted by rdenney View Post
    It seems to me that doweling or filling wood will be less strong than the original screws, which, at least over the long run, were obviously not strong enough. If you drill and screw into an epoxy plug, be sure to use exactly the correct pilot drill--epoxy has little tensile strength and can split. Gluing in a dowel and retapping is good preservationist practice, but do you want to use the camera or preserve it?
    A question for those in favor of using a plug/dowel over replacing with machine screws... When I attempted to do this previously on the Speed Graphic, I drilled out the holes to size, epoxied in birch dowels from a wood supplier (not from a big-box hardware store), allowed them to dry, sanded them flush, and then attempted to screw the shutter plate back in using replacement screws of the same size, but they did not hold. The reasons why this did not work are not exactly clear to me, but I suspect it was 1) the dowel plugs were not large enough - I used 1/8" dowels because the screws were so small, and I didn't want the work to be visible/to punch a hole in the leatherette on the body of the Speed Graphic, 2) the birch was too soft at that size, and/or 3) the screws were just too small - the originals, IIRC, were size #0, brass wood screws. Any thoughts?

    Historical accuracy is much less important to me than functionality. Given this, is the consensus still that the better approach is to epoxy in hardwood dowels and use the original/replacement screws? I will certainly be using bigger dowels, and these screws are already closer to a size #2 than they were with the Speed Graphic, but I was thinking that machine screws were something I'd be less likely to mess up, and the risk of over-tightening and stripping (the hole) is pretty much eliminated with this approach. Basically, I won't have to hold my breath every time I take a screw out or put it back in.

    Thanks for all the input. I really appreciate it.
    William

  9. #19

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    Re: Replacing brass wood screws with machine screws on an antique camera...

    Quote Originally Posted by fecaleagle View Post
    A question for those in favor of using a plug/dowel over replacing with machine screws... When I attempted to do this previously on the Speed Graphic, I drilled out the holes to size, epoxied in birch dowels from a wood supplier (not from a big-box hardware store), allowed them to dry, sanded them flush, and then attempted to screw the shutter plate back in using replacement screws of the same size, but they did not hold. The reasons why this did not work are not exactly clear to me, but I suspect it was 1) the dowel plugs were not large enough - I used 1/8" dowels because the screws were so small, and I didn't want the work to be visible/punch a hole in the leatherette on the body of the Speed Graphic, 2) the birch was too soft at that size, and/or 3) the screws were just too small - the originals, IIRC, were size #0, brass wood screws. Any thoughts?

    Historical accuracy is much less important to me than functionality. Given this, is the consensus still that the better approach is to epoxy in hardwood dowels and use the original/replacement screws? I will certainly be using bigger dowels, and these screws are already closer to a size #2 than they were with the Speed Graphic, but I was thinking that machine screws were something I'd be less likely to mess up, and the risk of over-tightening and stripping (the hole) is pretty much eliminated with this approach.

    Thanks for all the input. I really appreciate it.
    William
    Dowels were too small or too soft, or both. Did you pilot drill the holes too big? You'd use about a .040" drill for #0 screws IIRC.
    One man's Mede is another man's Persian.

  10. #20

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    Re: Replacing brass wood screws with machine screws on an antique camera...

    Quote Originally Posted by fecaleagle View Post
    ... but I was thinking that machine screws were something I'd be less likely to mess up, and the risk of over-tightening and stripping (the hole) is pretty much eliminated with this approach. Basically, I won't have to hold my breath every time I take a screw out or put it back in.
    R&R of a wood screw should be a fairly rare event. If you are planning to R&R often, then maybe the non-traditional approach would be best. I assumed (I seem to be doing too much of that too often lately) that you were planning on mounting a back and leaving it there.

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